Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
escobar said:
humiliating defeat if true
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500800443110281217
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I hope this offer is not real. If it is Ukraine should be biting the hand of Russia to take that deal.

An independent Ukraine now will have billions of dollars of NATO military equipment poured into it. Within a few years Ukraine will be at the point where it can fight a future Russian invasion independently. With the same institutions in place we'll be back in the same situation except the only card Russia will be left to play with is the nuclear one.

There's no going back at this point and there should only be one winner in this fight, Russia or Ukraine.

I hope Putin recognises this and this offer is just negotiating mind games to give the Russian military more time.
 
JamesRed

JamesRed

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Registered Member
If Russia were to collapse it would be sooner rather than later - before it was able to tackle the financial restrictions that were imposed on it. The longer Russia is able to withstand this assault, the more it turns its economy towards China and Chinese financial services, the less impact that western sanctions will have on it. The Russian economy was suffering when the west was sanctioning it while western corporations were siphoning away the capital Russia generates from the sale of energy resources. Unless the world stops buying Russian oil, collapse does not seem very likely.
 
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Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Abominable said:
I hope this offer is not real. If it is Ukraine should be biting the hand of Russia to take that deal.

An independent Ukraine now will have billions of dollars of NATO military equipment poured into it. Within a few years Ukraine will be at the point where it can fight a future Russian invasion independently. With the same institutions in place we'll be back in the same situation except the only card Russia will be left to play with is the nuclear one.

There's no going back at this point and there should only be one winner in this fight, Russia or Ukraine.

I hope Putin recognises this and this offer is just negotiating mind games to give the Russian military more time.
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Your view is absolutist... If Ukraine accepts this deal and provokes Russia in the future, it will be on its own... And, Russia will be able to defeat it militarily going all out this time in the border regions. There will be no pulling punches, with the exception of nuclear weapons. Do you think that most of the Western European countries have stomach for a fight with Russia after a neutrality agreement is reached?
 
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Pmichael

Junior Member
Weaasel said:
I will state my position again. Not acknowledging the expansion of NATO as being a problem is undertaken by the Western and especially US political elite deliberately to divert away from the fact that it is a problem, and casting Putin as seeking to recreate Imperial Russia is thoroughly ridiculous unless one also says that he wants world war 3. To recreate the Russian Empire he has to attack NATO member countries.

So, just go ahead and say it: Putin wants world war 3 and nuke exchange that will be thoroughly devasting for the globe - according to you.
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Political elite... okay. NATO is not a military threat for Russia or are you claiming that the 'political elite' wants a nuclear war with Russia? NATO stands for the political and cultural fear that countries which are seen as part of Russia (at least in the eyes of Russian nationalists) move away from the motherland. Something you can't blame those countries after witnessing the Soviet Union and the corruption of pro-Russian politicians.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Pmichael said:
and we are talking about a country with the industrial base smaller than Italy. There is no bright future for Russia. It’s time to face reality. By the way over 50% of trade was done with countries which are now on the unfriendly nations list.
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The exchange rate of rubel fallen futher ,so in a week time the Russian economy collapsed from the 90% of italian to the 40% of italian.

I hope you recognise the absurdity of your claim now.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Pmichael said:
Russia lost over 50% trade volumes also the source for the overwhelming share of their high tech, work machines, automotive and aerospace parts. Shit looks incredible bleak.
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China also makes work machines. Russia is a major supplier of the materials to make automotive and aerospace parts. It also has substantial facilities to make those parts in Russia proper. A lot of the parts manufacturing facilities and car assembly plants in Russia are owned by countries which froze Russian Central Bank assets and confiscated Russian private assets abroad. Those facilities in Russia will just be confiscated. Sure. There will be a huge disruption in the short term. In 5 years it won't make a difference.

Pmichael said:
People need to stop believing it was about the NATO and not about the historic romanticisation of the Great Russian Empire - Putin's justification for this war made it obvious.
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Russian politicians have warned against NATO expansion since before Putin was even in power. It is just that before they were not in a condition to oppose it.
 
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ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Russian politicians have warned against NATO expansion since before Putin was even in power. It is just that before they were not in a condition to oppose it.
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And neither is Russia now and even less in the future.
I think this was the main reason Putin decided to invaded Ukraine.
An act of desperation but also the last chance to get something out of deteriorating position i.e. now or never.
 
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