Ukrainian War Developments

[plawolf]

Let's not overidealize the history of Sino-Russian or Sino-Soviet relations.

When the USSR liberated Manchuria from Japanese occupation in 1945, the Soviets tended to treat the Chinese,
their nominal allies, almost like a conquered people. The Soviets looted practically all the industrial infrastructure
left behind by the Japanese and shipped it back to the USSR. On a grim personal level, Soviet soldiers often
celebrated--as they already had done in Europe--by raping conquered women, Chinese women in this case.

Someone in my family told me that he had been very sympathetic toward the USSR, but, after learning of this
kind of Soviet misbehavior, he became much more critical.

As the saying goes, if you go digging up ancient history, all you will get is dirt.

What happened in the past is largely irrelevant today, why bring it up?

Chinese-Russian cooperation is based on mutual benefit and interests. That’s a far stronger and more reliable bond than ideology.

Anyone who doubts that will be in for a massive shock if the Russians actually need help, because guess who’s going to provide it.

 

[ArmchairAnalyst]

Most of the population are completely unaware how close we came to nuclear war a week ago, many people in the western world aren't aware that nuclear war is even being discussed, despite that fact Russia has publically threatened it on multiple platforms.

Huh, based on what?
I can only say that people around where I live in the West are very aware of the risk of nuclear war (and Mutual Assured Destruction), especially those 40+ old who remember the cold war and the threat posed by the Soviet Union.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I understand that China may need Russia as an ally against their common enemy, US imperialism.
But unconditional support of Russia is not in China's best interests.
China should not blindly tie its fate to whatever decisions are made in the Kremlin.

A Chinese officer was studying at a Soviet military academy when the USSR was invaded in 1941.
Like all his classmates, he suddenly was drafted into RKKA. He served as a staff officer with distinction,
being decorated and promoted (if I recall correctly) to about a lieutenant colonel (give or take a rank).
After the USSR had been nearly cleared of Axis invaders in 1944, he requested permission to return to China.
The Soviets liked him so much that he was offered Soviet citizenship and a permanent career in the army.
While he felt sad to part from his Soviet friends, he believed that his duty was to serve his motherland.
He served as a general in the Korean War. After the Sino-Soviet split, he fell under suspicion due to his past.
His family (which might have had few other sources of income) in China did receive his Soviet military pension.

I don't think that is true the part about his family didn't receive pension. What I know even the kuomintang ex army receive pension from PRC So definitely the general family receive pension from PRC

 

[SteelBird]

the question is can Russia take Kiev and the other largers cities before the Western counter attack kicks in

once the supplies of ATGM + MANPADS are in the thousands Russian Air Force will suffer too much

without air cover those convoys will be at the mercy of the Anti-tank teams which so far are doing a devastating job

the Western counter attack will proceed within next few days which means Russia does not have alot of time

I don't mean to discuss politics but at this point there are few choices for Putin. He must win the war and win it fast. When Kyiv regime changed, sooner or later all sanction against Russia will be lift (because the West needs Russia too).

 

[zgx09t]

While it may be obvious to you that normal commercial and trade relations is the only path forward - that is not obvious to many members calling for one of either two extremes:

1. Take advantage of the situation to extract as many benefits from Russia at the current time as possible
2. Provide direct financial / economic aid

Both of which are not going to be in China's long-term interests.

Not only is Russia a great power - it is a former superpower still holding on to delusions of grandeur. Russia is never going to accept being a junior partner in a Sino-Russian partnership. While both nations benefit today from partnership and cooperation in many arenas, and both have a shared interest in standing up against US led imperialism, their relationship should be recognized for what it is rather than what it is not.

Also, Chinese should not forget all that Imperial Russia and the USSR have taken from China in the past 200 years. If the USSR had their way, China wouldn't have a Xinjiang problem today because Xinjiang would not even be Chinese, just like Outer Mongolia and Outer Manchuria.

Well, a broader Sino-Russian relation is part and parcel of Ukrainian War "Developments". Thus, it is on topic, as long as it is part of the "Developments" stemming from the current war. Broader Sino-Russian relations are the elephant in the room that has direct impact on final outcome of this war.

What puzzles me is the notion or perception that categorizes and assigns seniority to states when two or more align themselves to a quite discernible outline or trajectory. Why would it be so? That's like putting someone else's own words into China's official statement of "mutual respect" in every state-to-state relations and distort it to the opposite effect. That ridiculous senior/junior subjugation combined with maximum exploitation and benefits has exactly brought us to current Ukraine war, where US/NATO wants Russia to be their subjugated junior where they can and will exploit the whole Eurasian landmass with abandon. Russia doesn't want it, neither does China. So why would someone repeat and apply the same pattern and thinking in the emerging China-Russia comprehensive co-operation? Isn't it exactly the same mold of Western exploitative textbook thinking that brought us slavery, colonialism and racism, among a few notable other?

China believes in and practices a shared future and prosperity in one common home, the earth. China doesn't seek war, but will be well prepared for one.

 

[sferrin]

Allowing Ukraine to be anything more than a rump state is not acceptable because they have too much accumulated tech, too much accumulated hate, not enough money, and thus are able to pose a serious and motivated threat to Russia once part of NATO if they're not permanently crippled.

Oh please. Russia's 6000 nukes ain't enough against a non-nuclear, much smaller power? That's some superhero level paranoia right there.

 

[pmc]

Japan is more like 10% of Chinese GDP now. Japan exports (with trade deficits) are 1/5 of China but its domestic consumption far smaller.
Ukraine is also 10% of Russian GDP at current prices.

latest update from Pentagon is over 600 Iskander/Klibr. this approaching General Tommy Franks Shock and Awe from 2003.

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[FairAndUnbiased]

Japan is more like 10% of Chinese GDP now. Japan exports (with trade deficits) are 1/5 of China but its domestic consumption far smaller.
Ukraine is also 10% of Russian GDP at current prices.

latest update from Pentagon is over 600 Iskander/Klibr. this approaching General Tommy Franks Shock and Awe from 2003.

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the problem is that Russian shock and awe is not having the effect of shocking and awing the Ukrainian defense as they're - at the very least - able to make fake news without worry. Being able to make fake news without worry is in itself a problem. Just look at how fast US was able to shut down Baghdad Bob. And that's assuming that their gains are mostly false.

 

[9dashline]

 

[tygyg1111]

Oh please. Russia's 6000 nukes ain't enough against a non-nuclear, much smaller power? That's some superhero level paranoia right there.

In the same vein why does the US regard North Korea and Iran a threat to the US, despite not even bordering the US