Ukrainian War Developments

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tphuang

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Russian EW is for air and sea control (
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), not for ground targets. This is more like PLA (although PLA also has J-16D for direct EW) and unlike US, which has E-8 for ground control. Ground control EW is quite luxurious and is more for a country that can fight wars of choice against weaker opponents since they're very vulnerable in a direct peer to peer war.

You also have to think that NATO is watching and even active in the EM spectrum and Russia may need to hold back EM information for an actual existential war.
Seriously, we need to stop giving Russia excuses for this type of performance. China electromagnetic warfare capabilities at this point is miles ahead of Russia. China routinely show far more advanced em capabilities in it's flyovers around Taiwan than what we are seeing from the Russians.

Do you think if china was attacking Ukraine and had their ew aircraft in the air after attacking air defense, Ukraine would still have functional air defense or be able to communicate with each other by this point?
 

SampanViking

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Looks like Mariupol Offensive has restarted and no more exit for the civilians either. They will have to bunker down.

Anyone know how civilian logistics are working out here? Are these cities still receiving food and other non-military supplies? Cities don’t tend to have a lot of food long term excluding non-perishables.
I was wondering about this myself. I noted from the BBC that from the other city only 400 people had presented for evacuation.

Key to this is that both cities are in what is now the Donetsk Peoples Republic and that the destination for evacuation was outside of Donetsk in Ukrainian controlled territory.
Could it be that in areas that are overwhelmingly Russian and which strongly supported the original anti Coup uprising in 2014, that very few want to go out of Donetsk to Ukrainian territory?

I would also have to ask, under those conditions, where the locals consider themselves as Russian and the Garrison Ukrainian, that if there was shelling, which side would have little regard for the evacuees and would have most to benefit from a provocation?
 

ArmchairAnalyst

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Another ISW assessment:

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-----

Fredrick W. Kagan, George Barros, and Kateryna Stepanenko

In more detail:
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March 4, 3:00 pm EST

Russian forces continue their focus on encircling Kyiv. The western envelopment remains bogged down but Russian troops have moved more rapidly from the east and are arriving in the capital’s outskirts on the Sumy axis. The speed of the advance from the east is likely to slow as Russian forces leave sparsely-inhabited and flat terrain and enter the more congested and built-up eastern suburbs. Russian mechanized forces around Kharkiv appear to be supporting operations toward the east and west of the city, likely weakening their ability to encircle or seize it.


The Russian military has concentrated considerable combat power around Mariupol to encircle and ultimately seize or destroy it. The purpose of this effort is not entirely clear. The capture or destruction of Mariupol will not likely materially affect the outcome of the war, whose decisive operations are more than 600 kilometers northwest around Kyiv. Russian forces have also renewed their ground offensive west from Crimea toward Odesa, currently focusing on advancing from Kherson to Mykolayiv, and seized the Zaporizhya Nuclear Power Plant north of Crimea. The continued pursuit of objectives along three diverging axes by the same group of forces in Crimea has hindered the Russian military’s ability to generate decisive effects on any of the three.

DraftUkraineCoTMarch4,2022.png

Key Takeaways

  • Russian forces have advanced rapidly on the eastern outskirts of Kyiv likely from the Sumy axis and may attempt to encircle and/or attack the capital on the east bank of the Dnipro in the coming 24-48 hours;
  • Russian troops did not press a ground offensive against Kharkiv in the last 24 hours but have instead diverted forces to the west and southeast, likely supporting efforts against Kyiv and in and around Donbas respectively;
  • Russian troops have surrounded Mariupol and are attacking it brutally to compel its capitulation or destroy it;
  • Russian forces have renewed their ground advance on Mykolayiv, having secured Kherson city, likely to set conditions for a further attack toward Odesa. Russian naval infantry are likely poised to conduct amphibious landings near Odesa when Russian forces have secured or are close to securing a reliable ground route from Crimea to Odesa.
 

pmc

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Seriously, we need to stop giving Russia excuses for this type of performance. China electromagnetic warfare capabilities at this point is miles ahead of Russia. China routinely show far more advanced em capabilities in it's flyovers around Taiwan than what we are seeing from the Russians.

Do you think if china was attacking Ukraine and had their ew aircraft in the air after attacking air defense, Ukraine would still have functional air defense or be able to communicate with each other by this point?
I doubt any other airforce with low altitude flying will have any other result considering the sortie generation fomr multiple airfields.
EW dont make much difference. this mix of different formations.
USAF and USN fights from large bases in Middleast. that are trained for long time together.
 

reservior dogs

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Alright, folks. A minibrain dump here. I apologize for my absence. I have been insanely busy (work, helping the family, etc) plus I inadvertently called a surgical strike on myself: while cooking dinner, talking on the phone for obvious family reasons and wanting to pay attention to what is going online, including here, about the war, I had moved my laptop into the kitchen. I was not careful with the power cord and rushing about, tripped and sent the laptop flying. It cratered pretty impressively and I have been trying to retrieve data from it since. If one of you could tell me whose post I was reading at the time, I can arrange an invasion - complete with drink of your choice and some rather international cuisine - because look at what you made me do! (note: this is sarcastic snarky banter, not serious)

The family is in Poland and being fed and clothed. The situation is not good in the area and we are attempting to move them away from the crush that is only getting worse. That said, they are in no danger of bandits, Russian or Ukrainian artillery or air strikes, or terrified, adrenaline filled boys with guns, stupid civilians with rifles, or anyone with a grudge.

I want to clear something up that came up in the thread and the replies to me. I am not Ukrainian. I did not grow up in Ukraine. I have spent a LOT of time in Ukraine - even dug the black earth to plant potatoes, weeded agrden patches, fixed roofs and even have a knee that aches due to a collapsing chimney crying revenge on me for helping tear it down - and my family is from there. We are very xenophilic in our marriage partner tastes. My extended family looks like the UN when we get together: I think at this point we are only missing one continent. People with wildly transnational families can understand. This is a family tradition for us going back well over a century. Ukrainians are my family, but not my countrymen is the simplest way to put it. I don't want to misrepresent.

Back to the thread topic!

I think all of us need a mild recalibration of what looks like victory or defeat for the Russians. With the leaked documents claiming Russia expected a 15 day war, the claims of failure due to not achieving victory in 72 hours are wildly off. It might have been bluff and bluster by Russians: look how badass we are going to be. Perhaps it was mere propaganda or misinformation by oneside or the other: Russia said they could defeat us in 3 days! Ha! Therefore, before declaring victory (or failure) let's wait and see how things look in 5 days. Ukraine could totally collapse in that time frame. Russia's logistics could totally melt down.

Please, take everything said online with grains of salt enough to fill a Messinian Salinity Crisis Mediterranean. So much BS is flying around from Ukraine, the West, Russia, the LNR+DNR and all the usual gremlins and trolls online, you could fertilize a continent. Don't accept - or deny - something just because it fits your personal biases or desires. I know what I want. It is wildly divergent with reality. I accept that. I'd rather face the world as it is rather than lie to myself because the most powerful and dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves.

As for narratives! One I want to call out is the 'cheap Chinese tires.' This is annoying. China - like any country - has a wide range of manufacturers. There are fly by night entities. There are folks who make cheap stuff for those only willing to pay squat. There are those who make some of the best equipment in the world in China. You get what you pay for. Perhaps the Russians bought cheap crap. Perhaps they didn't take care of their equipment: some leaking seals suggest this. suggest. might. perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. Tagging the Russian issues with the Chinese location is wrong and at best an attempt to shift blame and at worst an intentional smear. FWIW, I buy extensive amounts of Chinese gear all the time. It works great. Any issues I have are due to shipping which is not their fault and the companies are more than happy to replace or fix it. They are extremely professional and even pleasant on the personal level. This Chinese related narrative is not the only one needing to be addressed, but one I have seen here.

I want to point something out people here should know already. How much land does an army really control? Truthfully, as far as they can see. With the grand maps showing well one side or another is doing (or not!), one should take into mind that truism. It was wildly apparent in invasions/wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan (Russian and American versions) and Iraq (round two). What matters is the people's will to resist and fight. What do we see here? I suspect its not as clear as anyone will make it sound.

I have a lot of catching up to do to see what the situation is outside my personal bubble. I will probably resume regular postings probably tomorrow or Monday.

Please, be safe. Please, be civil. Please, be critical. Please, be on topic. Please, don't do low effort posts. The mods allowed this thread to come back to life. I have utterly appreciated the actual, real thoughts and analysis people have given. I'd hate to lose this thread again with the increased scrutiny we have now.
I am glad that your family is doing well. Best wishes to them. With the Ukrainian defeat all but certain, hopefully all sides will work to minimize death and destruction. Looking forward to the reconstruction of Ukraine and hope that in the future, Ukraine can have better leadership.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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Seriously, we need to stop giving Russia excuses for this type of performance. China electromagnetic warfare capabilities at this point is miles ahead of Russia. China routinely show far more advanced em capabilities in it's flyovers around Taiwan than what we are seeing from the Russians.

Do you think if china was attacking Ukraine and had their ew aircraft in the air after attacking air defense, Ukraine would still have functional air defense or be able to communicate with each other by this point?
Why do you always think explanation = excuse? Would explaining US setbacks in Afghanistan be an excuse for the US??

China has more advanced EW because China can show off a fraction of the capability and not worry about sigint issues since there's more capability in reserve. Russia needs to hold back more because they likely have less capability.
 

SampanViking

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Seriously, we need to stop giving Russia excuses for this type of performance. China electromagnetic warfare capabilities at this point is miles ahead of Russia. China routinely show far more advanced em capabilities in it's flyovers around Taiwan than what we are seeing from the Russians.

Do you think if china was attacking Ukraine and had their ew aircraft in the air after attacking air defense, Ukraine would still have functional air defense or be able to communicate with each other by this point?
Its another interesting one Tphuang

It can only really come down to three main options, albeit with plenty of possible nuances.

1) Its exactly as it seems and the Russian performance in this area is very poor
2) NATO forces are projecting extreme EW ECM into Ukraine hampering the performance of Russian equipment. Now whether this is because it is a long way behind or because the Russians are unable to make aggressive countermeasures on account of escalation concerns, I do not know.
3) Russia knows its performance is being monitored by NATO extensively and because the Ukraine is not a very sophisticated enemy in this respect, is not using anything like its full potential in order to deprive NATO of this critical Intel.

(Actually some of ramifications of three are a little scary even for me!)
 
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