Chinese Economics Thread

LesAdieux

Junior Member
China has its own economic quacks too, these quacks are dismissive to China's high growth, and they've been talking up something called "quality growth", things like de leverage, de carbon, crack down on this, crack down on that, anything that can slow down the growth is quality stuff.

China should return to the old growth mode, to hell with those quality quacks!
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
China has its own economic quacks too, these quacks are dismissive to China's high growth, and they've been talking up something called "quality growth", things like de leverage, de carbon, crack down on this, crack down on that, anything that can slow down the growth is quality stuff.

China should return to the old growth mode, to hell with those quality quacks!
Decarbonisation, if handled correctly, can become a new growth engine for China.

See renewable industry, NEVs, retrofitting dirty industries, digitisation, better utilisation of data, automation etc

China is taking a holistic approach towards decarbonisation. As we can all see, this approach is now starting to pay off for the country as it is quickly becoming a major growth engine for China

Its all about policy making and implementation
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I normally don't even read articles of this level. but ok, it's late and I am bored. it doesn't even warrant a rebuttal. But just for fun, the guy is a research associate at Oxford University’s China Centre!!! A China expert. and yet he would make a mistake in an article on the economies like this: "This article was amended on 29 December 2021 because an earlier version cited “America’s $9tn GDP margin over China”. In fact the figure is estimated to be $7tn."

of course, just churning out papers. who cares about checking for errors?
Factual numerical errors destroy credibility. This, along with watching some videos about UC Berkeley's sponsorship of scams like Water Seer, put massive doubt on their claims of academic superiority.

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BTW even their correction is wrong, as their assertion of 7 trillion was last true in 2019.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
Decarbonisation, if handled correctly, can become a new growth engine for China.

See renewable industry, NEVs, retrofitting dirty industries, digitisation, better utilisation of data, automation etc

China is taking a holistic approach towards decarbonisation. As we can all see, this approach is now starting to pay off for the country as it is quickly becoming a major growth engine for China

Its all about policy making and implementation

growth is the hard truth. the economic policy should be more growth focused.
the hard part is consumption, policy makers certainly haven't figured out how to get people to spend.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
growth is the hard truth. the economic policy should be more growth focused.
the hard part is consumption, policy makers certainly haven't figured out how to get people to spend.
Consumption is ez pz. I wrote on this before - highest category of US consumer spending isn't retail, it's on food, transportation, healthcare, rent and student debt.

So it's super easy to get people to spend the stupid way. Just raise healthcare and real estate costs, defund public transportation, privatize education and make junk food.

Of course you can see how this strategy is incredibly stupid and is why growth is meaningless without planning for public welfare.
 
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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
It has already been mentioned on this thread, GDP (PPP) is the more accurate measure of output. GDP (nominal) converts the entire output of an economy at market exchange rates, which makes no sense because the vast majority of economic output is never traded on international markets.

The more accurate measure of GDP attempts to measure what is actually produced (value added) and adjust for price distortions created by exchange rate conversions. China already became the world's largest economy around 2014.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
It has already been mentioned on this thread, GDP (PPP) is the more accurate measure of output. GDP (nominal) converts the entire output of an economy at market exchange rates, which makes no sense because the vast majority of economic output is never traded on international markets.

The more accurate measure of GDP attempts to measure what is actually produced (value added) and adjust for price distortions created by exchange rate conversions. China already became the world's largest economy around 2014.
I would like to point out that the Chinese PPP GDP is already at US$29.38 trillion, Taiwan US$1.53 trillion, Hong Kong US$519 billion and Macau US$66 billion.

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
It has already been mentioned on this thread, GDP (PPP) is the more accurate measure of output. GDP (nominal) converts the entire output of an economy at market exchange rates, which makes no sense because the vast majority of economic output is never traded on international markets.

The more accurate measure of GDP attempts to measure what is actually produced (value added) and adjust for price distortions created by exchange rate conversions.
Where is Gatekeeper when you need him?...

If we just counted GDP PPP then we would have to say that India has a bigger economy than Japan... I assume you can see why this is problematic.

GDP PPP and GDP Nominal both have their use. But to say that GDP PPP is more representative/accurate is misleading at best. (Not saying that GDP Nominal is the best though)
 

Maikeru

Captain
Registered Member
Where is Gatekeeper when you need him?...

If we just counted GDP PPP then we would have to say that India has a bigger economy than Japan... I assume you can see why this is problematic.

GDP PPP and GDP Nominal both have their use. But to say that GDP PPP is more representative/accurate is misleading at best. (Not saying that GDP Nominal is the best though)
For the purposes of comparing military potential, I would say it depends on the country. For e.g. Saudi Arabia, which imports almost all its arms and employs foriegn mercenaries to maintain them, nominal GDP would probably be the best measure. For China, which makes almost all its own weapons and pays its troops in its own currency, PPP would be better. For India, somewhere in between.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
For the purposes of comparing military potential, I would say it depends on the country. For e.g. Saudi Arabia, which imports almost all its arms and employs foriegn mercenaries to maintain them, nominal GDP would probably be the best measure. For China, which makes almost all its own weapons and pays its troops in its own currency, PPP would be better. For India, somewhere in between.
Exactly.

PPP GDP is a better metric than nominal GDP to measure a country's purchasing power, so to measure the different costs of living, PPP per capita GDP is still the best component to use. This applies to the military field.

But some problems with this measure may arise. The World Bank's GDP PPP takes the value of GDP, converts it into dollars, and then divides the result by a "magic index", which is a basket of products arbitrarily chosen by the bank's bureaucrats. The curious thing is that the IMF and the CIA adopt the exact same procedure, except that each one has its own basket of products.

The consequence?

When measuring the GDP of countries by Purchasing Power Parity, the three lists generated are quite different from each other. As the Wikipedia entry itself says, "As estimates and assumptions must be made, the results produced by different organizations for the same country tend to vary, sometimes substantially. PPP are estimates rather than hard facts, figures and should be used carefully."

This analytical arbitrariness causes problems in measuring PPP GDP. For example, let's say you live in mainland China and there the barber pays ¥10, while in China's biggest and richest city, shaving at a barber costs ¥50. What cost will we be based on?

I think the PPP is overestimated and cannot be used to find a real value, what you can do is take all the economic indicators and make a big picture why the IMF itself, as well as any institution of this size, show all the indicators, which people will prefer and how they will interpret this data and something else.

The PPP itself does not indicate the real value, because in a low-wage economy, the PPP tends to be overestimated, that is, it cannot be used as a REAL measure, to be a REAL unit, as some use to reach a common denominator . PPP is used together with other indicators and aggregates to have a view as a whole.

In short, PPP does not abort inflation that takes away the value of the currency's purchasing power, PPP does not abort how the exchange rate affects imports, which are very important for globalized economies, this significantly reduces the purchasing power capacity, it cannot and should not use it as a vestment to define real equivalence between 2 economies like this, randomly, without taking into account other aspects and not counting that they are totally different economies, you cannot define what has the same value in each one, not counting the exchange.

The PPP method is good to be used to measure the exchange rate that is conferred by the relative purchasing power between countries. The GDP PPP measure reflects the differences in the cost of living in different countries. The advantages of using nominal GDP numbers include that less estimation is needed, and they reflect the share of a country's inhabitants in the global economy more accurately.
 
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