JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Temstar]

Pakistan buying j10c? There's no official confirmation

There's been rumours and Shilao has been talking about it in his podcast recently, that batch of J-10CE intended for Pakistan is currently being built according to him. Quality wise it's a bit downgraded from J-10C for cost reasons.

 

[Blitzo]

I would not be surprised if this is China’s response to the UK for AUKUS.

I expect China may have been withholding certain weapons in previous offerings, specially anti-ship and stand off precision strike weapons so as to not damage relations with the UK needlessly. But now that the UK has joined AUKUS, upsetting the UK has gone from a negative to a positive.

On top of allowing a full offensive weapons suit, there are plenty of other things China can do if it really wanted to do this deal to screw with the British ranging from price cuts to soft loans to making the planes military aid outright.

I doubt it, this particular deal was basically in the works for a while and it was ultimately Argentina who made the decision, not China suddenly clearing JF-17 for sale to them.

Not to mention Argentina's record of buying new jets in the last few years doesn't inspire confidence that this purchase will go through.

 

[plawolf]

I doubt it, this particular deal was basically in the works for a while and it was ultimately Argentina who made the decision, not China suddenly clearing JF-17 for sale to them.

Not to mention Argentina's record of buying new jets in the last few years doesn't inspire confidence that this purchase will go through.

Come on, for how long have Argentine been toying with this deal? And they announce it just after AUKUS? There is no such thing as that big of a co-incidence in high international relations.

And it’s not about China clearing the JF17 for sale, come on, what kind of a suggestion is that for an export fighter?! It’s about China making enough inducements to sweeten the deal enough for the Argentines to finally bite, part of which could be the agreement to supply weapons China was previously holding back to avoid needlessly needling the British for no good reason, because unlike the Anglo-sphere, China hasn’t gone petty enough that to cause annoyance is enough justification by itself.

But now that the UK as joined a blatantly anti-China military alliance, the gloves can come off.

Worst possible scenario China just outright gifts the fighters. That’s what, $600m, what Canada just blew on a vanity ego stroke attempt for Trudeau. Pretty good value for money in comparison if you ask me.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

It’s about China making enough inducements to sweeten the deal enough for the Argentines to finally bite, part of which could be the agreement to supply weapons China was previously holding back to avoid needlessly needling the British for no good reason

Something like... these?

Those look a lot meaner than some rinky-dink Exocets.

 

[Blitzo]

Come on, for how long have Argentine been toying with this deal? And they announce it just after AUKUS? There is no such thing as that big of a co-incidence in high international relations.

And it’s not about China clearing the JF17 for sale, come on, what kind of a suggestion is that for an export fighter?! It’s about China making enough inducements to sweeten the deal enough for the Argentines to finally bite, part of which could be the agreement to supply weapons China was previously holding back to avoid needlessly needling the British for no good reason, because unlike the Anglo-sphere, China hasn’t gone petty enough that to cause annoyance is enough justification by itself.

But now that the UK as joined a blatantly anti-China military alliance, the gloves can come off.

Worst possible scenario China just outright gifts the fighters. That’s what, $600m, what Canada just blew on a vanity ego stroke attempt for Trudeau. Pretty good value for money in comparison if you ask me.

Considering Argentina has been umming and uhhing about various other fighters over the years with false starts, the position they've taken so far is indecisive.

The clarification from the Argentine government (linked in Sieges post above just now) is basically confirmation of it.


Also, China would be very naive to think that a sale or even a gift of 12 JF-17s is anywhere near equal to the AUKUS agreement.
Now, it is possible that the JF-17 sale (if it proceeds) and future military cooperation with Argentina might be seen as some kind of response to the UK, but at this stage, this purchase is far from convincing.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Now, it is possible that the JF-17 sale (if it proceeds) and future military cooperation with Argentina might be seen as some kind of response to the UK, but at this stage, this purchase is far from convincing.

I'm going to annoy you a bit by making one of my out there predictions: If this purchase goes through and a defense relationship between China and Argentina blossoms, then it could end up with the UK losing territory. By contrast, no one in the Chinese leadership is losing so much as a moment's sleep over a new acronym. But even I will admit that Argentina getting serious is ridiculously optimistic.

Considering Argentina has been umming and uhhing about various other fighters over the years with false starts, the position they've taken so far is indecisive.

Argentina is getting those JF-17s like Australia is getting those submarines.

 

[Blitzo]

I'm going to annoy you a bit by making one of my out there predictions: If this purchase goes through and a defense relationship between China and Argentina blossoms, then it could end up with the UK losing territory. By contrast, no one in the Chinese leadership is losing so much as a moment's sleep over a new acronym. But even I will admit that Argentina getting serious is ridiculously optimistic.

Argentina is getting those JF-17s like Australia is getting those submarines.

I don't see how those two purchases are similar at all, and frankly I am getting tired of this kind of chauvinism from you when you know you are making "out there" predictions and posts.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I don't see how those two purchases are similar at all

Australia operates 6 antique diesel submarines. Its contract with France was farcical and ended in public acrimony. Do you think they'll be able to successfully build and operate any number of nuclear submarines, even with American hand-holding? If this contract has any chance of succeeding they'll be getting American submarines, built in America, and sailing under American command. So, basically, an American submarine with an Australian flag painted on it.

By contrast, if Argentina gets JF-17s, they'll be purchasing an excellent budget fighter well within their capability to operate and maintain. So you're right in that the purchases are dissimilar - the Argentinian one has a much better chance of success.

and frankly I am getting tired of this kind of chauvinism from you when you know you are making "out there" predictions and posts.

Frankly, the most out there thing going on in this forum recently has been people taking this AUKUS thing seriously. I feel a joke coming on: a fading hegemon, a long-faded hegemon reduced to a flunky, and a penal colony walk into a bar...

 

[Blitzo]

Australia operates 6 antique diesel submarines. Its contract with France was farcical and ended in public acrimony. Do you think they'll be able to successfully build and operate any number of nuclear submarines, even with American hand-holding? If this contract has any chance of succeeding they'll be getting American submarines, built in America, and sailing under American command. So, basically, an American submarine with an Australian flag painted on it.

By contrast, if Argentina gets JF-17s, they'll be purchasing an excellent budget fighter well within their capability to operate and maintain. So you're right in that the purchases are dissimilar - the Argentinian one has a much better chance of success.

Frankly, the most out there thing going on in this forum recently has been people taking this AUKUS thing seriously. I feel a joke coming on: a fading hegemon, a long-faded hegemon reduced to a flunky, and a penal colony walk into a bar...

JF-17 Block 3 would be a very reasonable and capable fighter for Argentina to purchase if they so choose to buy it eventually.

However my argument to Plawolf stands -- there is little basis at this stage to believe this intent of Argentina to buy the JF-17s are a reflection of a Chinese "reaction" to AUKUS.


As for the significance of AUKUS, the capability of the Collins class and the viability of the future Australian SSNs, that is very much off topic from this thread and I am drawing the line there against any further discussion of it in this thread.