PP17A is west of the Kugrang Changlung confluence. PP17A is around where the indian camp was.
Ladakh Flash Point
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You are / were better regarding video and Pictures of Galwan clash @lgnxzLMAO it's literally the same tent from this , from 0:22 and onward. In the very start of the video that you linked yourself you can even see the same thing of indians hauling the tent from the back and bringing it to the front of the other bigger indian tent?? Are you blind, or purposefully trying to act stupid, or thinking people here are too stupid to call this blatant lie?
This is also another indication that your whole shtick here is not to discuss the ladakh topic in a honest manner, you clearly didn't watch the video that I already post months ago to make this batshit, complete 180 of the galwan chronology, but rather to spew out indian's delusional propaganda on a non-existent narrative again and again and again.
Nothing's new, afterall this is the country that claims Su-30MKI can detect J-20 thousands of km away yet funnily still buys rafale to yet again counter the already countered the shitty chinese f-22/f-35 copy,amirite? I guess people/moderator's expectation for indians are already so low that a liar like you that can blatantly spew bs like this and be tolerated in this forum, I've seen chinese member here getting warned/banned for way less, just so you know.
Well yes, the indian camp is removed, because as I've said repeatedly, you lost the galwan clash. Can we get it clear from now on, hmm?
Good work. Much appreciate the posts you made an year ago.
Yes. And?
I'm trying to understand your sudden flip regarding recognizing the individuality of these patrol points.
Earlier you used to insist that all were Gogra Post. What happened?
I'm sorry. What are you trying to understand? I think there is still some misunderstanding. I believe I explained earlier that the entire Gogra Changlung confluence area is knows as the Gogra campground. India did have a temporary camp there around PP17a
There is no misunderstanding except that this post of yours -
Is misleading. That's all.
Regarding the Gogra Campground. No, the entire region isn't Gogra Campground ( unless it is your personal take.)
So where's the response then @twineedle ? You have nothing to say whenever you get called out on every single blatant lie you've made? Which video from the chinese side that shows indian breaking chinese tent? Hello????
So where's the response then @twineedle ? You have nothing to say whenever you get called out on every single blatant lie you've made? Which video from the chinese side that shows indian breaking chinese tent? Hello????
The specific details don't matter as much. Indians objected to Chinese positions within the 20%. They made moves to push China out of disputed land they feel more entitled to. This was all mid year developments! AFTER PLA occupied forwards positioned (ie past China's blue line of control) around April.
Whether Indians successfully removed some Chinese tents for five minutes or not before the fighting in June doesn't matter. The June fight occurred because Colonel Babu was either commanded or decided for himself to attack a Chinese forward position with dismantling construction and who knows what else. In around March they beat and possibly killed a PLA communication liaison officer. So perhaps more violence than taking tents down was planned. In any case, that's the cause of the fight... when PLA finally intercepted the Indian group.
Who cares about the details of tent being dragged down or not.
Indian went into 20% thinking it can gain de facto control through presence and patrolling. Something China has done in the past to salami slice a little bit beyond Aksai Chin's original new borders de facto control gained by China after 1962 war.
India didn't expect China to respond to Indian presence. China occupied F8 to F4 and parts of Galwan. India occupied parts within 20% as well we should remember. This is disputed land!
India's "solution" to China's response was to try and push China out. China doing the same while constructing more positions and increased presence. It isn't hard to piece this entire event together. There is no winner but if the end result becomes 20% converted into a buffer, it would serve China's interest as India would get 0% of the legacy dispute while China keeps 80%.
However India is yet to leave northern stretches. Pangong and Gogra becoming buffers are good but the job isn't completed. China no doubt is negotiating for India to leave the rest and no one has a good idea how much presence China has remaining within the 20%.
As much as we talk about PLA "occupation" of forward positions we should remember this is in response to India occupying forward positions. India is still holding onto some forward positions within the 20% and in order to force them off, China would need to either take more or if China already has some left, use disengagement as offer for converting the land with military presence into a buffer. Once total buffer agreement for entire 20% is done, China would have secured Aksai China and there is also the added bonus India will not be patrolling the 20% with even temporary positions and there is no chance of troops meeting and fighting. Giving this dispute a stability China has not enjoyed.
@Ignxz
In summary ignoring the history and motivations, India took 2.5 steps in the remaining disputed land around Jan 2020. China responded with its own two steps in. Media frenzy. Modi is attacked by his political opponents in India. China offers India 1 step back in exchange for India taking a step back... Pangong disengaged and buffer set up. China claims Gogra and Hot Springs and puts PLA a little forward with artillery support and military developments to push for India accepting another step back disengagement. Recently Gogra gets disengaged and converted to buffer. Now we don't know how many positions and bargaining power China has left. China may have taken both steps back in exchange for buffer and India taken equal number of steps back. Fact remains that India may still have some positions in the northern most sections of the dispute. If that is the case then India is still within 20% and China may or may not be. China's goal is obvious now - get India out of 20% and get them to sign buffer agreements. India may keep positions in the north so they are adjacent to Aksai Chin. If China has no more bargaining power since it's already traded its positions for Pangong and Gogra buffers and Indian mutual disengagement, then China would need to capture some more land in order to force India off the rest. However China risks getting India to respond in the same way.
Here is where tactics and equipment might come into play. Along with politics. China would need to convince Indian leaders of risk and reward dynamics that play to China's favour. It may also need to use some certain equipment to drive Indians off the remaining land they are on if they are still on any. More important that this though, China would need India to sign agreements. Even if they leave northern stretches after some microwave bursts, they can simply patrol it and set up positions. Only an agreement would secure buffer deal.
In summary ignoring the history and motivations, India took 2.5 steps in the remaining disputed land around Jan 2020. China responded with its own two steps in. Media frenzy. Modi is attacked by his political opponents in India. China offers India 1 step back in exchange for India taking a step back... Pangong disengaged and buffer set up. China claims Gogra and Hot Springs and puts PLA a little forward with artillery support and military developments to push for India accepting another step back disengagement. Recently Gogra gets disengaged and converted to buffer. Now we don't know how many positions and bargaining power China has left. China may have taken both steps back in exchange for buffer and India taken equal number of steps back. Fact remains that India may still have some positions in the northern most sections of the dispute. If that is the case then India is still within 20% and China may or may not be. China's goal is obvious now - get India out of 20% and get them to sign buffer agreements. India may keep positions in the north so they are adjacent to Aksai Chin. If China has no more bargaining power since it's already traded its positions for Pangong and Gogra buffers and Indian mutual disengagement, then China would need to capture some more land in order to force India off the rest. However China risks getting India to respond in the same way.
Here is where tactics and equipment might come into play. Along with politics. China would need to convince Indian leaders of risk and reward dynamics that play to China's favour. It may also need to use some certain equipment to drive Indians off the remaining land they are on if they are still on any. More important that this though, China would need India to sign agreements. Even if they leave northern stretches after some microwave bursts, they can simply patrol it and set up positions. Only an agreement would secure buffer deal.
Why are you acting as his messenger?? Let him tell this by himself, holy moly apart from tolerating this conman you're also trying to do unpaid work for him? If you really want to be that then fine, go find the video that he claims to be indian dismantling chinese tent in galwan, you don't have any authority to decide what matters and what doesn't.
Well I care, so? Again why are you replying to me if you don't care, let @twineedle explain himself then because he certainly care since afterall, he made the first claim.
All I want is for the conman to admit his con, or perhaps he can do some indian magic and produce the claimed video to convince us all
. You who clearly shows apathy to the lies and bs that have been spewed for thousands of pages should just stand aside and watch me chew him alive for his outrageous statement in this thread for a while .So once again @twineedle , where is the video??
Why are you acting as his messenger?? Let him tell this by himself, holy moly apart from tolerating this conman you're also trying to do unpaid work for him? If you really want to be that then fine, go find the video that he claims to be indian dismantling chinese tent in galwan, you don't have any authority to decide what matters and what doesn't.
Well I care, so? Again why are you replying to me if you don't care, let @twineedle explain himself then because he certainly care since afterall, he made the first claim.
All I want is for the conman to admit his con, or perhaps he can do some indian magic and produce the claimed video to convince us all
So once again @twineedle , where is the video??
Because it's such a minor detail. It works against you. It's like an Indian chauvinist asking for a video of Chinese soldiers subduing Indians. They exist. It happened. Once the video is produced are you not embarrassed saying it didn't/doesn't exist? Have your fun but you do your position a great disservice by acting just like a mindless Jai Hind.
Get your main point stated, then argue tiny details if you so wish or if it is important. This details is neither.
You seem more interested to reduce it to two groups of apes flinging shit at each other. Attacking everything the other says regardless of what the content is or how trivial a particular detail is. The fight happened because an Indian group attacked a Chinese position. You can't stand it if a Chinese position is attacked? You can't tolerate the fact that a Chinese tent was attacked? lol.
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