China's Space Program News Thread

[AndrewS]

I see what you mean. I'm focusing on the solar power satellites (SPSs); I'm leaving anything beyond that for another day.



In your scenario, a lot of mass would have to appear by magic at L5, if you want to make the solar panels there. If you don't believe in magic, then the raw silicon dioxide would have to come from somewhere, like the lunar surface, asteroid surface, etc. The propellants to move that SiO2 would have to be there, somehow. Perhaps we could find an asteroid with a lot of water, a lot of rock, AND a large and nearby source of energy. Until then, we will probably have to land the water on Luna somehow.

Remember that the Earth has 80x the mass of the Moon, so the energy required to launch off the Moon is a lot less.

Plus I think building solar power satellites on the moon is too speculative. You would need very low fuel costs to justify transporting and developing a factory complex on the moon. It would be easier to build solar panels on Earth and launch them.

But there will be a ready market for low cost fuel refuelling in space

 

[by78]

Some extended footage of the EVA from Youtube.

 

[eprash]

Looks like they have a replica of the suit in mission center to double check everything, similar to the Mars rover mission

 

[by78]

Two more Youtube videos. The first one looks at the tools used by taikonauts for their extravehicular activities. The second video talks about the robotic crawler arm. Unfortunately, no English subtitles are available.

 

[zgx09t]

I noticed taikonauts had to spend a bit of time to hook and unhook the carabiners to grab bars, being it a safety procedure and a priority to safely operate outside in space. I wish someday smart engineers down here can figure out a track system, with railings or grab bars as backup, with detachable exoskeleton with another detachable personal robotic arms, something like dr. octopus but much simpler and functional, to take care of that grabbing activities so taikonauts can focus on other things. If the system malfunctions, just chuck it to the space and back to grab bars. Seeing what robots can do in publicly available yt videos, if coupled with ai, that day wouldn't be far off I guess. Just a wish list.

 

[taxiya]

Two more Youtube videos. The first one looks at the tools used by taikonauts for their extravehicular activities. The second video talks about the robotic crawler arm. Unfortunately, no English subtitles are available.

Very interesting in the 2nd video about the robotic arm.

At 1:41, the interviewer asked "is there any similar robotic arm in other country that has the similar function, crawling?".
The answer was: "not now".
Interviewer: "we are the first".
Confirmation: "yes, we are the first".

The interviewee is professional in the program, I believe that he is very aware of what Canada arm is able to. That makes me really wonder what kind of "crawl" is it in the claim of "Canada arm can crawl". Has that "crawl" been demonstrated in the space? Or it was a design objective, and perhaps made into the arm, but for some reason never utilized therefor never proven? Or that "crawling" is not this crawling. It would be similar to the claim that "F-35B has TVC", but that "TVC" is not really the TVC that people would think about. Miss-understanding due to similar looks?

 

[Xizor]

Very interesting in the 2nd video about the robotic arm.

At 1:41, the interviewer asked "is there any similar robotic arm in other country that has the similar function, crawling?".
The answer was: "not now".
Interviewer: "we are the first".
Confirmation: "yes, we are the first".

The interviewee is professional in the program, I believe that he is very aware of what Canada arm is able to. That makes me really wonder what kind of "crawl" is it in the claim of "Canada arm can crawl". Has that "crawl" been demonstrated in the space? Or it was a design objective, and perhaps made into the arm, but for some reason never utilized therefor never proven? Or that "crawling" is not this crawling. It would be similar to the claim that "F-35B has TVC", but that "TVC" is not really the TVC that people would think about. Miss-understanding due to similar looks?

I've raised the question earlier.

The Canadarm2 is very similar to Chinese robotic arm. It has similar grapple fixture mechanism. Both can move like "caterpillar", however the ISS has these ports located far in between that Canadarm2 can't pull it off. It uses the Mobile Base and Transport system that transports the Canadarm on the truss of ISS.


The Chinese robotic arm may be automated to a higher extend owing to the newness. But the core competencies seem matched.

 

[taxiya]

I've raised the question earlier.

The Canadarm2 is very similar to Chinese robotic arm. It has similar grapple fixture mechanism.

This is the "miss-understanding due to similar looks" that I was talking about. It is similar but not necessarily the same inside with same capability.

Both can move like "caterpillar",

This is what was claimed and a speculation, but not proven or demonstrated so far. My question was about the "can". I'd like to see it doing it before I believe.

however the ISS has these ports located far in between that Canadarm2 can't pull it off. It uses the Mobile Base and Transport system that transports the Canadarm on the truss of ISS.

Can Canadarm2 function on the truss? If yes, then there is no use of these ports. In this working mode, there is no crawling.

Or the arm has to be connected to these port to function? If yes, the truss is doing the moving not the arm. This is not really "crawling" just like F-35B is not really TVC in the sense of SU-35 and F-22.

 

[Nutrient]

Remember that the Earth has 80x the mass of the Moon, so the energy required to launch off the Moon is a lot less.

Vastly easier to launch masses off the Moon, which is why I want to make the solar panels (which are like 99% of the mass of an SPS) from lunar substances.

It would be easier to build solar panels on Earth and launch them.

Easier but far more expensive to launch from Earth. Making the panels on the Moon will add complexity but save a bundle; China's engineering population is large enough to handle complex projects -- which we're seeing right now with a successful orbiter/lander/rover combination at Mars on the first try.

Plus I think building solar power satellites on the moon is too speculative. You would need very low fuel costs to justify transporting and developing a factory complex on the moon.

An SPS's solar panels do not need the latest tech; if we use lunar mass for them, and enough propellants are at hand, it's possible to compensate for panels of less efficiency by simply launching extra panels. Hence a factory can be simple, a solar powered SiO2 refinery and some 3D printers.

Railguns might be possible for launching the finished panels from the Moon. It may be possible to time the launches so the panels can arrive at GEO with precisely the right velocity. So mining Phobos/Ceres for propellants might not even be necessary; I'll have to think about this.

 

[Richard Santos]

Since 2002 the canadarm2 has been attached to a mobile trolley that runs in rails spanning the entire length of ISS main truss. So there is no need for it detech itself on the end connected to the trolley to move around the station.

But between 2000, when it was first installed, and 2002, when the trolly and truss system was installed, the canadarm moved around the outside of ISS modules using the same method as the arm of Tianhe. in the time no other means of movement was available to the Cabadarm 2.