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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
My friend, Socialism from Marx, Engels and Linin is internationalist and democratic. They recognize there is no chance for realization of socialism in one country, and must based on worker democracy to combat bureaucratism. This is very different from so-called socialism from Stalin and Mao, and their followers.

China's "socialism" is a hybrid of capitalism on the a weakened foundation of public owned economy. The bureaucracy privatized public properties to enrich themselves, but uses all kinds of excuse to justify such action, including the old crap of Confucianism. It was the same thing the USSR bureaucracy did, but in a slow motion (which gave China time to develop, but it won't last very long unless reversed).

This is a classic argument, but is not supported by fact. Some of most backward countries in the world had largest wealth gap. Another counter example is the USSR, it developed from an peasant country to a very advanced level of technology, without wealth gaps. Actually, China is similar, most leading edge technologies are created by state sector or under state support, such as in quantum computing, super computer, space and military...

It is not a just label, as long as it is true. The crap of Cultural Revolution is that there was no capitalist class at the time, but Mao used class struggle as excuse to rid of political oppositions. The crap today is that there is severe class divide, but no one dares talk about class struggle openly. But if you look at Chinese forums, you will find people hate the Jack Ma for so called 996 work schedule, as that's pure exploitation.

The state is never natural, as it always represents the interest of the dominating class. When Chinese capitalists have a dominating strength, like in other capitalist countries, they will control the state. Policies of Chinese government are already tilting to the capitalists now, for example, during Covid-19, capitalists got loans and other financial aid, but workers got nothing. Hell, even American workers got some crumples. That's why consumption recovery is still lagging in China.
See the bold texts. You apparently mistaken Lenin (not Linin) for what he was. The very reason of USSR's foundation was that the Bolshevik believed that Socialism can be established in one country without realizing world revolution. To have a socialist state, bureaucracy is a must. Lenin the the founder of the very first socialist state. What you subscribed on is the practice of Trotsky thought, not Lenin. Stalin was continuing what Lenin established, so is Mao to expand Lenin's idea in China. Without Stalin and Mao there won't be ANY socialism left on this planet, real or fake (as you may call).

From multiple posts of yours I can see that you want a perfect and pure "socialism" and I guarantee you that you won't get ANYTHING, not in the past hundred years, not today and not in the near future because if you are a true Marxist you should know that economy reality dictate the social structure not the other way around, not because you want in your mind. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Deng were willing to settle on something imperfect and they got things done, and we saw an alternative social model (to the western one) for the first time in human history. And we can move on from this point to get closer to an ideal socialism when times is right.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
They are a bipartisan group of senators who are sitting in the Armed services, and Foreign relations committees.

They are definetely not visiting by just their own decision. They obviously have approval from other people.
Strictly speaking I'm not sure they need approval from anyone. In reality they probably are supported by the House majority and minority leaders, but there's no veto there that could be exercised. Certainly not since the legislation that was passed in the last couple of years supporting official visits to Taiwan.

China had its way for many years when the State Department was often on its side. That has changed, but I think overreacting would be what the Taiwanese government would like, as it would make it harder for Sinophiles in the US to argue against these sorts of visits.

In order words, WWDD (What Would Deng Do)?

At this point the island are China's if it has an all time presence there. Next step is troops landing there and setting up a Chinese flag...
I think the article said the ships are outside what the territorial water limit would be, so China is still obeying the letter of international law by not going within what would be sovereign waters.

However, landing troops would probably be a quick way to start a military confrontation and get Chinese personnel killed. Those islands are small and don't have lots of space to set up a well-defended base. Any PLA troopers that landed there and tried to stay would be sitting ducks.

If they left then the SDF would just move in, take down the PRC flag and put the Japanese flag up. Which would then mean the PLA would need to go back - and then you've got the chance of shooting to break out as well.

Best to just not push the issue whilst there aren't any hostilities between Beijing and Tokyo.

All i want is China to go beyond diplomatic protests. I read that China was ready to scramble jets when the UN Ambassador visit was planned. Why not do the same here and show that you mean business?
You mean, shoot down a US airplane carrying legislators?

There is no agreement on why the visit from Kelly Craft did not go ahead. There's the pro-China version that Trump was told there would be some undisclosed response so he backed off, and others have said the handover with Biden went ahead so late it was all hands to the pump, so she had to be called back.

But whatever the reason there has already been a visit from former US officials including a senator since Biden took office, so it would be a bit late for China to say "you'd better not do that, or else". I don't think anyone would say it's ok to kill/threaten to kill serving US officials but not recently retired ones.

Basically if China wants to scramble fighters it can, but unless it really is just for show and they stay well the fuck away from the US plane, it could trigger a conflict. Personally I think it would be like Chinese soldiers landing on the disputed islands and planting their flag - a very good way to escalate things for no gain.
 
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Mr T

Senior Member
This is an example of why the Chinese education system desperately needs more funding to bring in a better class of teacher and also the people who run the schools.

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It's not uncommon for teachers to have relationships with their students, though it's normally recognised as illegal. But a campaign of attacks over nearly 20 years and the school ignoring complaints shows something is wrong.

It may be an issue with authority figures in China not being used to being questioned or held to account, but I think it's also down to the wrong sort of people being attracted to teaching. If you're super-bright, why would you take the poor salary that teaching gives?
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
This is an example of why the Chinese education system desperately needs more funding to bring in a better class of teacher and also the people who run the schools.

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It's not uncommon for teachers to have relationships with their students, though it's normally recognised as illegal. But a campaign of attacks over nearly 20 years and the school ignoring complaints shows something is wrong.

It may be an issue with authority figures in China not being used to being questioned or held to account, but I think it's also down to the wrong sort of people being attracted to teaching. If you're super-bright, why would you take the poor salary that teaching gives?
IMO is old man mentality about "having no problems"

Low education from gov on these teachers

Low education from gov on students and parents

However it should be noted that the Police force was responsible that it took it seriously and didnt just ignore it (I am having mixed feelings for commending them for just believing rape-victims, very low bar...)
 

KYli

Brigadier
I mean what options does China have except diplomatic protests? Do suggest. Taking a stand is a vague term. One has to be more specific.
I don't advocate for drastic actions. However, there needs to be a response. For the last few decades, the Chinese elites think by deeply intertwined economically with the US would ensure mutual respect and maintain peace. For the last few years, this thinking has been proven wrong. Trump administration has shown us that the US would do anything to sabotage China ascendant even if it meant that the US would suffer. Biden administration chose to continue this path should shatter any illusion that the US and China relationship can be restored.

First, it is time to end the Dollar Supremacy. The US has weaponized its financial system and supremacy for far too long. China should actively move away from dollar in trades and reserves. Second, no-interference policy is outdated. China needs to put the US in the defensive by exposing its flaws and tension. Third, it is fear not love that China needs right now. Nuclear arsenal needs an urgent update and expansion. Last, decoupling is happening no matter what. China should actively embrace decoupling instead of making further concessions to maintain the economic relationship between the two countries.

I would recommend even bolder military actions against Taiwan. If flying planes that penetrate Taiwan air zone is not enough to deter Taiwan then flying fighters deep into Taiwan. The frequency and intensity of military exercises should also drastically increase.
 
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KYli

Brigadier
This is an example of why the Chinese education system desperately needs more funding to bring in a better class of teacher and also the people who run the schools.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It's not uncommon for teachers to have relationships with their students, though it's normally recognised as illegal. But a campaign of attacks over nearly 20 years and the school ignoring complaints shows something is wrong.

It may be an issue with authority figures in China not being used to being questioned or held to account, but I think it's also down to the wrong sort of people being attracted to teaching. If you're super-bright, why would you take the poor salary that teaching gives?
What kind of mental gymnastic are you showing here? Do I need to remain you how the Catholic churches and boy scouts get away with rape and sexual harassment with intimidation and threats for decades.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
I don't advocate for drastic actions. However, there needs to be a response. For the last few decades, the Chinese elites think by deeply intertwined economically with the US would ensure mutual respect and maintain peace.
Good thing that Xi uprooted so many of them. Xi had a strategic vision which ultimately saved China from becoming a white-worshipping country (still exists in some things though)


Biden administration chose to continue this path should shatter any illusion that the US and China relationship can be restored.
Yes this is why I am actually happy seeing Biden be so tough with China. Xi was still facing too much internal resistance on his policies regarding the US.

Trump was win 1 for Xi
Trade war win 2
Covid big win 3
Biden final win 4

The last remaining US supporters in China had bet everything on Biden mending the relationship again. With Biden becoming a Trump version 2, Chinese US-philes in the CPC have been ridiculed and sidelined completely. IMO Xi will now finally be given a mostly free hand to operate however he wants.

First, it is time to end the Dollar Supremacy. The US has weaponized its financial system and supremacy for far too long. China should actively move away from dollar in trades and reserves.
Digital Yuan is the first step. Unfortunately China is still not committed enough on phasing out dollars though. Stable but slow development here.


Second, no-interference policy is outdated.
True. However if possible, China should keep up this facade for at least 5 years more. It still needs time after all..


Third, it is fear not love that China needs right now. Nuclear arsenal needs an urgent update and expansio
Agreed


Last, decoupling is happening no matter what. China should actively embrace decoupling instead of making further concessions to maintain the economic relationship between the two countries.
The more China can delay it the better for it. China can keep talking to the US untill year 2500 or more if needed. "Talk is cheap"


If flying planes that penetrate Taiwan air zone is not enough to deter Taiwan then flying fighters deep into Taiwan.
This is already happening if an important US official visits Taiwan. The issue is that China doesn't have many ways to respond to US actions. What you mentioned will only happen if something extremely serious happen between US-Taiwan.
IMO more tools need to be added to the diplomatic toolbox of China

I think assymetric warfare is the key here. One, is subsiding drugs, another is picking up vulnerable western industries and then subsiding Chinese manufacturers to flood the world with ultra cheap products resulting in destruction of Western industries.

There are other ways but they need a lot of research
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
I don't advocate for drastic actions. However, there needs to be a response. For the last few decades, the Chinese elites think by deeply intertwined economically with the US would ensure mutual respect and maintain peace. For the last few years, this thinking has been proven wrong. Trump administration has shown us that the US would do anything to sabotage China ascendant even if it meant that the US would suffer. Biden administration chose to continue this path should shatter any illusion that the US and China relationship can be restored.

First, it is time to end the Dollar Supremacy. The US has weaponized its financial system and supremacy for far too long. China should actively move away from dollar in trades and reserves. Second, no-interference policy is outdated. China needs to put the US in the defensive by exposing its flaws and tension. Third, it is fear not love that China needs right now. Nuclear arsenal needs an urgent update and expansion. Last, decoupling is happening no matter what. China should actively embrace decoupling instead of making further concessions to maintain the economic relationship between the two countries.

I would recommend even bolder military actions against Taiwan. If flying planes that penetrate Taiwan air zone is not enough to deter Taiwan then flying fighters deep into Taiwan. The frequency and intensity of military exercises would drastically increase.

The way I see it, that intertwining of China into the world economy and with the United States deepening its trading relationships, all based on the principles of win-win and mutual respect, that worked.

Not that it worked, that strategy was brilliant. China's rise was unimpeded all these decades. Decades we are talking about.

China would not be in the position it is today if it took a confrontational approach to the world and in particular the United States.

The position China finds itself in the world today, is totally different from the past. A different strategy may be in order.

That brings us to the tricky part. There is no clear strategy of how to proceed.

I believe the CCP analyzed it correctly, and that China is in a position of strength. When one is in a position of strength, the urgency to do something is not that prevalent.

China is going in the direction that the CCP wants it to be going, and it is a bumpy road, no one said it will be easy, but it is still proceeding the same way.

What is the correct strategy under these circumstances is hard to say.
 

paullee

New Member
Registered Member
I don't advocate for drastic actions. However, there needs to be a response. For the last few decades, the Chinese elites think by deeply intertwined economically with the US would ensure mutual respect and maintain peace. For the last few years, this thinking has been proven wrong. Trump administration has shown us that the US would do anything to sabotage China ascendant even if it meant that the US would suffer. Biden administration chose to continue this path should shatter any illusion that the US and China relationship can be restored.

First, it is time to end the Dollar Supremacy. The US has weaponized its financial system and supremacy for far too long. China should actively move away from dollar in trades and reserves. Second, no-interference policy is outdated. China needs to put the US in the defensive by exposing its flaws and tension. Third, it is fear not love that China needs right now. Nuclear arsenal needs an urgent update and expansion. Last, decoupling is happening no matter what. China should actively embrace decoupling instead of making further concessions to maintain the economic relationship between the two countries.

I would recommend even bolder military actions against Taiwan. If flying planes that penetrate Taiwan air zone is not enough to deter Taiwan then flying fighters deep into Taiwan. The frequency and intensity of military exercises should also drastically increase.
At the high level both US and China knows its a race against time to see whom side can pull the rug out from underneath the other side first... decoupling will be one of the inevitable outcomes of that regardless of whom comes out on top in the final analysis...

This is why US is getting TSMC to build like dozens of fabs in the continential USA. Its all about betting that they can tech decouple faster than it would take China to become self sufficent in semiconductors etc... both are targeting 2025.... Likewise the digital Yuan and the fact that money is now programmable means its a huge push to the dual circulation strategy that will help China decouple from the US economy (and the death grip of petrodollar hegemony etc) much faster...

Its winner takes all, at the end of the day there is only enough room at the top for one alpha... one system will win out... and both are doing whatever they can to make sure its their system that prevails...

China strategy is to cut out the useless eater middleman who we all know which nation I'm referring to....

America strategy is to leverage and call upon its power over its vassals to force them to sacrifice themselves in order to gang up on China so that its "rules based order" never becomes destabilized... ie hegemony lasts forever and "win the 21st century"
 
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