Chinese government' s policy weakness and failing to establish Indeginous semiconductor technology.

[Oldschool]

I really feel the Chinese semiconductor industry thread is too diluted and too encompassing into many areas. Products, research, policies, industries..etc all over the map.

On this thread, I specifically like to discuss on Chinese government policy in establishing Indeginous semiconductor technology or the weaknesses in policy.

After so many years of 5 years planning , By now China should have a Indeginous semiconductor technology across the industry at older nodes such 90nm or 40nm at which domestic producers should use domestic equipments to produce chips at such older nodes. But that's not the case, company like SMIC, and Huahong still uses exclusively western equipments at older nodes

To me, that's a policy failure.
It didn't accomplish it's objective.

Government offers subsidies and guidelines but that's about it. It didn't offer any substances.

That's why Chinese semiconductor industry has no solid foundation.

Lacking very advanced nodes is understandable but failing to establish Indeginous 100% domestic tech at older node is non excusable

 

[Oldschool]

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This is TSMC malicious attempt to undercut mainland foundry especially SMIC.

China now calling for 28nm 100% self sufficient and it had no trouble to getting western equipments at 28nm either.

Why is TSMC doing this?

This is screaming for Chinese government to step in to stop TSMC malicious attempt to undercut mainland foundry.

It should forbid TSMC from establish anything above 14nm.

This is the right policy I am talking about.

Nonaction from Chinese government is nonexecusable.

It's a repeated pattern of passive inaction by Chinese government that leads to domestic players being undercut.

 

[Oldschool]

China government establish the unreliable entities list in response to domestic players being harmed. And what happen now?

Nothing happen. None of foreign companies being punished for harming huawei

This is policy failure because it didn't do anything.

 

[Oldschool]

The way to foster 100% domestic tech is through academic and University first.

Government should order domestic equipments and establish R&D Fabs for academic and University research. At least should have 5 national academic fabs with 100% Indeginous equipments and materials.

At first domestic equipments will not be good enough for industry but through years of academic usage at wide scale, issues can be discovered and feedback sent back to vendors.

Only through many years of feedback and improvement can domestic equipments be good enough for industry.



Industry players generally don't use experimental equipments because they are unreliable. They have no time for this.

But at academic research usage is totally different.

No such programs have established. I think this is the biggest policy failure.

 

[Oldschool]

Two tactics foreign companies used in China against domestic players.

First is denial, second is undercut.

Denial of the tech China doesn't have and if China on the cusp of developing something, they will have products similar to that and lower the price alot to undercut.


Two companies watch out for is TSMC and ASML.

Before ASML was reluctant to sell even DUV to China and now hearing China 28nm DUV on the cusp it immediately offer to sell to China. They may even lower the price more once China 's 28nm DUV on the market


I am quite sure ASML will finally approved it's older model of EUV once China roll out its EUV equipment. US will approved also because this way it can attack China EUV equipment market.

From previous article TSMC ready to ramp up 28nm production in China to undercut SMIC.


Therefore China government must roll out effective policies to combat this type of predatorial behaviors.

 

[voyager1]

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This is TSMC malicious attempt to undercut mainland foundry especially SMIC.

China now calling for 28nm 100% self sufficient and it had no trouble to getting western equipments at 28nm either.

Why is TSMC doing this?

This is screaming for Chinese government to step in to stop TSMC malicious attempt to undercut mainland foundry.

It should forbid TSMC from establish anything above 14nm.

This is the right policy I am talking about.

Nonaction from Chinese government is nonexecusable.

It's a repeated pattern of passive inaction by Chinese government that leads to domestic players being undercut.

TSMC must not be allowed to set up shop in China for older processes. If it does then China should put a 100% tariff/tax for any chip that contains US IP.

As for the rest, I agree. Big failure on older processes. However I have to say that then the institutions and markets were not mature.
In general the whole government was not mature and corruption was everywhere.

I think that now that the gov agencies are so much stronger and with less corruption and more experienced they can do miracles now

 

[Oldschool]

TSMC must not be allowed to set up shop in China for older processes. If it does then China should put a 100% tariff/tax for any chip that contains US IP.

As for the rest, I agree. Big failure on older processes. However I have to say that then the institutions and markets were not mature.
In general the whole government was not mature and corruption was everywhere.

I think that now that the gov agencies are so much stronger and with less corruption and more experienced they can do miracles now

I am keeping an eye on the Chinese government reaction to this TSMC plan on expanding at 28nm. If Chinese government doesn't do anything I have conclude they are still incompetent even now. There is no other way to spin this.

Hopefully words like this spread and they aware of this.

The fact that TSMC establishing 5nm plant at US and 28nm plant at China is an insult to Chinese people

 

[manqiangrexue]

Oh I see failure and weakness alright. Bo Chen/Tidalwave's failure to stay in cognito and his weakness to dwell in places where he is without welcome LOL.

China's drive to develop DUV and EUV advances smoothly and is on track to make China the only country self-sufficient in lithography and that's all that matters. All the rest of this is just the layman complaining that a hero isn't a God. This challenge would crush any other country but China's able to take it full on; the only complaint here is that it isn't perfect, having circumvented the challenge before it even arose.

I am keeping an eye on the Chinese government reaction to this TSMC plan on expanding at 28nm. If Chinese government doesn't do anything I have conclude they are still incompetent even now. There is no other way to spin this.

LOLOL Oh you're keeping an eye on the CCP! LOLOL How rich; the West has millions of eyes on the CCP and they conclude that it is a stand-alone lethal threat to the dominance of the entire Western alliance, including Japan and Korea. Who cares if some nobody on the internet thinks they're "incompetent?" LOL Look at what the CCP has achieved and what you have, and tell anyone you have the qualifications to judge. You are but a flea trying to judge the flavor of an elephant's blood.

Hopefully words like this spread and they aware of this.

Old delusions die hard. You have no influence anywhere and nobody will hear of any of your nonsense. You're on Ren Zhengfei's email spam list LOL

The fact that TSMC establishing 5nm plant at US and 28nm plant at China is an insult to Chinese people

The fact that Taiwan isn't under the control of the CCP is an insult to Chinese people, and the CCP is the only government that can develop China from a country that couldn't make truck to the most powerful country in the world capable of rectifying this.

 

[AssassinsMace]

 

[Oldschool]

Oh I see failure and weakness alright. Bo Chen/Tidalwave's failure to stay in cognito and his weakness to dwell in places where he is without welcome LOL.

China's drive to develop DUV and EUV advances smoothly and is on track to make China the only country self-sufficient in lithography and that's all that matters. All the rest of this is just the layman complaining that a hero isn't a God. This challenge would crush any other country but China's able to take it full on; the only complaint here is that it isn't perfect, having circumvented the challenge before it even arose.

LOLOL Oh you're keeping an eye on the CCP! LOLOL How rich; the West has millions of eyes on the CCP and they conclude that it is a stand-alone lethal threat to the dominance of the entire Western alliance, including Japan and Korea. Who cares if some nobody on the internet thinks they're "incompetent?" LOL Look at what the CCP has achieved and what you have, and tell anyone you have the qualifications to judge. You are but a flea trying to judge the flavor of an elephant's blood.

Old delusions die hard. You have no influence anywhere and nobody will hear of any of your nonsense. You're on Ren Zhengfei's email spam list LOL

The fact that Taiwan isn't under the control of the CCP is an insult to Chinese people, and the CCP is the only government that can develop China from a country that couldn't make truck to the most powerful country in the world capable of rectifying this.

All emotional outburst with no substances.
Flush down