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Jono

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is this true? Any details/update on this?

Thank you in advance.
even if it is true, you won't hear official confirmation from the Chinese Government as Beijing officials normally do not brag about such matters to save face for the opponents.
Don't insult your opponents unnecessarily seems to be a good working principle.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
even if it is true, you won't hear official confirmation from the Chinese Government as Beijing officials normally do not brag about such matters to save face for the opponents.
Don't insult your opponents unnecessarily seems to be a good working principle.
I doubt its true. We haven't heard anything at all from western media. Compare this to the sort of similar situation a few years ago when a Chinese sub surfaced near a US CV.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is this true? Any details/update on this?

Thank you in advance.
even if it is true, you won't hear official confirmation from the Chinese Government as Beijing officials normally do not brag about such matters to save face for the opponents.
Don't insult your opponents unnecessarily seems to be a good working principle.
That pic of 054a and USN sub is a satellite pic. Officially they didn't say anything but purposely released that satellite pic.
 

Ndla2

Junior Member
Registered Member
even if it is true, you won't hear official confirmation from the Chinese Government as Beijing officials normally do not brag about such matters to save face for the opponents.
Don't insult your opponents unnecessarily seems to be a good working principle.
That brings us to my original question. How do we force a sub to surface without actually attacking it and risk starting a war/conflict?

Or perhaps if it was indeed happened, it was due to their conscious decision as part of their plan, not because of someone actually managed to force them to surface.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
That brings us to my original question. How do we force a sub to surface without actually attacking it and risk starting a war/conflict?

Or perhaps if it was indeed happened, it was due to their conscious decision as part of their plan, not because of someone actually managed to force them to surface.
Please check up the last pages of this thread. Plenty of discussion of how this could happen
 

Janiz

Senior Member
even if it is true, you won't hear official confirmation from the Chinese Government as Beijing officials normally do not brag about such matters to save face for the opponents.
lol, they don't brag about this because it wasn't 'forced' to surface or tracked down. If a tracked submarine decides to surface and show flag they brag about it and release photos.

Rx5rdlx.jpeg
I did. None of them could actually FORCE a sub to surface without actually attacking it.
They can't force it. In this situation (if it's indeed US sub on this satellite photo) CO just simply decided to surface (maybe they were surfaced for a longer period of time beforehand) and take a peek at Chinese carrier and show the flag to signal no ill will. For sure it wasn't 'forced' and I seriously doubt it was tracked at any point when submerged by Chinese warships. It simply looks like some mind games straight from the Cold War era. And much more experience in such tricks is for sure on the US side.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Again on more time for the general question of whether a sub can be "forced" to surface without being attacked, it cannot. BUT if the captain has any intention to keep the acoustic (and whatever other means of detecting subs) signatures hidden from, they would surface.

In this case, it's impossible to know whether the USN sub surfaced before, during, or after efforts to detect or actual detection.

They could have surfaced to pre-empt Chinese attempts to try and detect... they could have surfaced after being made known by the Chinese that they've been detected (which is an interesting statement and choice to make for plenty of reasons) ... they could have surfaced close to the CV01 to let the PLAN know it sneaked in close to the PLAN CV undetected. We don't know. It could be humiliating to the US, to the Chinese or to neither. They could be playing around, they could be doing some double bluffs and feeding incorrect information on purpose etc. Again it's impossible to know the true intentions. It's already impossible (for us) to know the actual event and its finer details.

But for a general situation of arbitrary submarine and surface anti-sub efforts, the submarine should NOT be continuing its usual stealthy operation under the surface while it knows that the adversary anti-sub efforts are trying to detect and track it. Why? It's simply because allowing them the time to calmly go about these anti-sub mission is giving them many golden opportunities to test things out and verify whether or not they work etc.

Now you can see where the mind games could come in and be in effect on both sides.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
I know this might be veering off-topic but do subs have acoustic sound generators to mask their true signature? Sort of like luneburg lenses on a stealth aircraft.
 
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