Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Interesting that there is no Japanese companies in the top 10, neither UK & France

I had expected Alibaba and Tencent were up there

Considering PPP, so in real term Huawei spend much more, even more than Alphabet

Both Alphabet and Huawei have global R&D footprints, so it's going to be difficult to compare their spending in PPP terms.

Japan has Toyota and Honda in top 20. Alibaba is at 26, Tencent 46 and Baidu 66. But Baidu is much more R&D intensive than the other two given its small size.
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei CEO admits there is zero chance for reversal, as I predicted Biden will change nothing. US committed to this road there is no turning back.... we are in for the long hual folks...


Im sure many here are familiar with this video compilation by now, for those who arent I would encourage you to watch the clip its not too long...

Two thing that stuck out that I'd like to get thoughts of other folks here:

1) the military official says that post 911 the war on terra in the middle east was mainly about China, specifically what we know of now as BRI... so was this just happenstance, or true planning ahead, or bunch of retroactive revisionists pat on the back?

Basically, if US started the war on terra back in 2003 (it would have planned it per PNAC docs around 2000) for purpose of China containment why did it not do the sort of tech containment until well into the next decade of 2010s.... really started in earnest around 2015 and after...

Has America been playing the long game against China all this time and acting dumb but behind the scenes there is some 11D Chess reverse pysops going on?

2) Another guy says US doesnt tolerate peer competitors and make sure they always end up in the scrap heap of history, he points out Nazi germany and imperial Japan... that US saw both the then European and Asian powers as potential competitors thus threats and made sure to get rid of them...

How much of this was luck and how much of this was actually foresight and planned ahead like the guy is illuding to? Its true for example US already broke jap codes and knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen and used that false flag of sorts to enter the war after sitting out on the sidelines to then grab a win and get a large chunk of dividend of the new world order.... Only three of the top scientists working on atomic bomb in US was American the rest was imported talent, yet US intentionally nuked Japan twice as show of force to the world when in fact Japan already planned to surrender. This disparity in power meant the world was effectively held hostage and had to jump on the Brentwoods agreement and the American hegemony bandwagon...

I guess what Im saying is US has had what seemed to be a string of good luck, but I dont believe its all attributed to luck... America seems to have an uncanny ability to screw everybody, still end up the as winner when its all said and done, then ultimately even get the international community to pat it on the back and praise it for being exceptional and God choosen....

What non-obvious pitfalls should China watch out for the most in the coming years and decades?
 
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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Huawei CEO admits there is zero chance for reversal, as I predicted Biden will change nothing. US committed to this road there is no turning back.... we are in for the long hual folks...


Im sure many here are familiar with this video compilation by now, for those who arent I would encourage you to watch the clip its not too long...

Two thing that stuck out that I'd like to get thoughts of other folks here:

1) the military official says that post 911 the war on terra in the middle east was mainly about China, specifically what we know of now as BRI... so was this just happenstance, or true planning ahead, or bunch of retroactive revisionists pat on the back?

Basically, if US started the war on terra back in 2003 (it would have planned it per PNAC docs around 2000) for purpose of China containment why did it not do the sort of tech containment until well into the next decade of 2010s.... really started in earnest around 2015 and after...

Has America been playing the long game against China all this time and acting dumb but behind the scenes there is some 11D Chess reverse pysops going on?

2) Another guy says US doesnt tolerate peer competitors and make sure they always end up in the scrap heap of history, he points out Nazi germany and imperial Japan... that US saw both the then European and Asian powers as potential competitors thus threats and made sure to get rid of them...

How much of this was luck and how much of this was actually foresight and planned ahead like the guy is illuding to? Its true for example US already broke jap codes and knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen and used that false flag of sorts to enter the war after sitting out on the sidelines to then grab a win and get a large chunk of dividend of the new world order.... Only three of the top scientists working on atomic bomb in US was American the rest was imported talent, yet US intentionally nuked Japan twice as show of force to the world when in fact Japan already planned to surrender. This disparity in power meant the world was effectively held hostage and had to jump on the Brentwoods agreement and the American hegemony bandwagon...

I guess what Im saying is US has had what seemed to be a string of good luck, but I dont believe its all attributed to luck... America seems to have an uncanny ability to screw everybody, still end up the as winner when its all said and done, then ultimately even get the international community to pat it on the back and praise it for being exceptional and God choosen....

What non-obvious pitfalls should China watch out for the most in the coming years and decades?
Ultimately while the USA can fool the world and did have a long string of good luck, this is starting to unravel given that more and more nations are starting to second guess their actions. Also to note is that it would few more strings of bad luck to bring the house down now whereas in the past, it would be unthinkable. That is why they are so determined find a new enemy because everything right now in the USA is on the verge of imploding
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
When my friends and I go out to a steak restaurant, there's one of them who's a Republican and when that thick juicy steak is placed right in front of him, he always says, "This is why the terrorists hate us!". And that's why Americans hate the Chinese. It has nothing to do human rights being violated. That's just an excuse to cover up how they hate the Chinese just for being a threat at not making them number one in the world in anything. That's not a crime. That's why they hate the Chinese even more. You can have other Asians who think Americans like them more hence why they think they're superior to Chinese. That maybe true but that's the only thing because Americans certainly don't look at them as equals. It's like when I was reading comments to an article how India beat the US at being the second largest cell phone market and the comments were typically nasty using the stereotypes of India being backward. India being the second largest cell phone market in the world isn't a crime but the comments certainly acted like it was. So you can beat the US in having a faster super computer. You beat the US in handling COVID-19. You have a Chinese banquet with friends and family enjoying life but remember after all of this, you can definitely say, "This is why Americans hate us!"
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Huawei CEO admits there is zero chance for reversal, as I predicted Biden will change nothing. US committed to this road there is no turning back.... we are in for the long hual folks...


Im sure many here are familiar with this video compilation by now, for those who arent I would encourage you to watch the clip its not too long...

Two thing that stuck out that I'd like to get thoughts of other folks here:

1) the military official says that post 911 the war on terra in the middle east was mainly about China, specifically what we know of now as BRI... so was this just happenstance, or true planning ahead, or bunch of retroactive revisionists pat on the back?

Basically, if US started the war on terra back in 2003 (it would have planned it per PNAC docs around 2000) for purpose of China containment why did it not do the sort of tech containment until well into the next decade of 2010s.... really started in earnest around 2015 and after...

Has America been playing the long game against China all this time and acting dumb but behind the scenes there is some 11D Chess reverse pysops going on?

2) Another guy says US doesnt tolerate peer competitors and make sure they always end up in the scrap heap of history, he points out Nazi germany and imperial Japan... that US saw both the then European and Asian powers as potential competitors thus threats and made sure to get rid of them...

How much of this was luck and how much of this was actually foresight and planned ahead like the guy is illuding to? Its true for example US already broke jap codes and knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen and used that false flag of sorts to enter the war after sitting out on the sidelines to then grab a win and get a large chunk of dividend of the new world order.... Only three of the top scientists working on atomic bomb in US was American the rest was imported talent, yet US intentionally nuked Japan twice as show of force to the world when in fact Japan already planned to surrender. This disparity in power meant the world was effectively held hostage and had to jump on the Brentwoods agreement and the American hegemony bandwagon...

I guess what Im saying is US has had what seemed to be a string of good luck, but I dont believe its all attributed to luck... America seems to have an uncanny ability to screw everybody, still end up the as winner when its all said and done, then ultimately even get the international community to pat it on the back and praise it for being exceptional and God choosen....

What non-obvious pitfalls should China watch out for the most in the coming years and decades?


Ah, you loved me as a loser,
but now you're worried that I just might win
You know the way to stop me,
but you don't have the discipline
-Leonard Cohen

 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
What non-obvious pitfalls should China watch out for the most in the coming years and decades?
1. Pandemics.

2. Financial crisis.

3. Sudden uprisings, such as people in the streets, anywhere. Ragon, Bangkok, or Washington DC.

4. Insurrections, anywhere. Any ethnic strife leading to blood in the streets.

5. Terrorism.

6. Economic turmoil. Displacement of people due to changes to the economy, such as now with small businesses being wiped out, or robotics arriving en mass.

In the end, it always comes back to the people. To serve the people, that is the question.

That is why we need eyes and ears everywhere, to know what the situation is like on the ground.

Also note, of that list, none are state sponsored. Not originally, the CIA does not get involved unless there is an opening. Do not give them an opening.
 

daifo

Major
Registered Member
Huawei CEO admits there is zero chance for reversal, as I predicted Biden will change nothing. US committed to this road there is no turning back.... we are in for the long hual folks...


Im sure many here are familiar with this video compilation by now, for those who arent I would encourage you to watch the clip its not too long...

Two thing that stuck out that I'd like to get thoughts of other folks here:

1) the military official says that post 911 the war on terra in the middle east was mainly about China, specifically what we know of now as BRI... so was this just happenstance, or true planning ahead, or bunch of retroactive revisionists pat on the back?

Basically, if US started the war on terra back in 2003 (it would have planned it per PNAC docs around 2000) for purpose of China containment why did it not do the sort of tech containment until well into the next decade of 2010s.... really started in earnest around 2015 and after...

Has America been playing the long game against China all this time and acting dumb but behind the scenes there is some 11D Chess reverse pysops going on?

2) Another guy says US doesnt tolerate peer competitors and make sure they always end up in the scrap heap of history, he points out Nazi germany and imperial Japan... that US saw both the then European and Asian powers as potential competitors thus threats and made sure to get rid of them...

How much of this was luck and how much of this was actually foresight and planned ahead like the guy is illuding to? Its true for example US already broke jap codes and knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen and used that false flag of sorts to enter the war after sitting out on the sidelines to then grab a win and get a large chunk of dividend of the new world order.... Only three of the top scientists working on atomic bomb in US was American the rest was imported talent, yet US intentionally nuked Japan twice as show of force to the world when in fact Japan already planned to surrender. This disparity in power meant the world was effectively held hostage and had to jump on the Brentwoods agreement and the American hegemony bandwagon...

I guess what Im saying is US has had what seemed to be a string of good luck, but I dont believe its all attributed to luck... America seems to have an uncanny ability to screw everybody, still end up the as winner when its all said and done, then ultimately even get the international community to pat it on the back and praise it for being exceptional and God choosen....

What non-obvious pitfalls should China watch out for the most in the coming years and decades?

Also, the US sat out of the war as long as possible to weaken it's other countries and competitors (ie best buddy United Kindom)
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
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China has already won Asia's arms race

Regional powers must act to curtail Beijing's military supremacy


There has been much chatter over recent years about an Asian arms race triggered by China's surging military expenditure. This, it is argued, is reflected in increased defense budgets and new equipment programs announced by a number of Asian countries.

But one of the oddities of Asian geopolitics is that, if China's neighbors are fearful of its growing hard power capabilities, there is little evidence of urgency in their responses. As China's People's Liberation Army has become more advanced and capable, many neighboring militaries have stagnated. If there is a regional arms race, it has few participants and China has won it before the starting gun has even been fired.

China's regional military leadership is the result of its dramatic advances over the last three decades. The country's surging defense budget has allowed every aspect of the PLA to be transformed and modernized, with an impressive commitment to new technologies and equipment. These investments have allowed new doctrines based on regional force projection rather than China's territorial defense. This is particularly visible with the PLA Navy and its new aircraft carriers, destroyers, assault ships and submarines. But there have also been substantial increases in spending across all the PLA's branches, including the Air Force and Rocket Force.

In contrast to the PLA's advances, numerous militaries across Asia have been starved of funds and are facing relative obsolescence. True, regional defense budgets are expanding, but they frequently remain small by comparison with Gross Domestic Products and are often growing slower than underlying economies. Military spending has, in fact, shrunk over the last 10 years as a percentage of overall GDP across many of China's neighbors.

This trend is most pronounced in Southeast Asia, where the majority of countries have a seemingly entrenched reluctance to build credible defensive capabilities. Only Singapore, which by itself accounts for more than a quarter of the region's defense expenditure, appears committed to maintaining an advanced and comprehensively equipped military. By comparison, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines all spend approximately 1% of their GDPs on defense. Their militaries are chronically underfunded with aging and often inoperable equipment. And when Southeast Asian countries do buy new weapons, it is often on such a small scale as to be almost irrelevant.

Southeast Asia, however, is not alone. Taiwan consistently reduced its defense spending as a percentage of its GDP between 1999 and 2019, from more than 3% to less than 2%, despite the growing threat from across the Taiwan Strait. And although it has increased its defense budget in 2020 and 2021, in part to acquire new equipment from the U.S., it remains unclear whether this will be sufficient relative to the threats faced or to offset the earlier underinvestment.

Japan has also refrained from significantly increasing its defense spending as a share of the total GDP. It may have Asia's third-largest defense budget, after China and India, but despite increased allocations since 2013, the country still spends just 1% of its GDP on its military. This proportion is far less than in Singapore, South Korea or Australia. As a result, Japan's military is less capable than appropriate given its size, regional status and risks the country faces.

There are three possible explanations for this military neglect.

The first is that many Asian governments simply do not view defense spending as important when compared with other domestic priorities. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, for example, all face rapidly increasing health care costs as their populations age. Similarly, many Southeast Asian nations frequently identify more pressing considerations when government budgets are under pressure.

The second is that Asian countries may have already decided that any response would be futile given the shift of the region's balance of power toward China. The superpower's military spending is already larger than the rest of Asia combined. It spends four and five times as much as India and Japan, respectively, and more than six times the total military expenditures of the Southeast Asian countries. Differences in this order of magnitude may be impossible to address, even with greater spending commitments.

The third possible explanation is that much of the region remains reliant on the U.S. for military cover. But this is a strategy with risks. Not only is there a degree of uncertainty about the U.S.'s long-term commitment to its regional partners, but the days of American military superiority over China are nearing their end. Asian countries seeking external support to offset their military deficiencies may find themselves vulnerable if the U.S., or any other non-Asian power, decides that the costs and risks of such partnerships are simply too high.

If China's neighbors view its military advances as a long-term problem, then they need to take action now. They have to spend far more on defense and should establish collective regional security structures to bolster their individual efforts. Failure to do so will send a clear signal that they see little urgency in addressing the region's changing geopolitical dynamics. And if they cannot find a sense of urgency in responding to China's growing might, then why should the rest of the world? If Asian countries willingly accept China's military supremacy, then so may the world's more distant powers.
 

SilentObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
Two thing that stuck out that I'd like to get thoughts of other folks here:

1) the military official says that post 911 the war on terra in the middle east was mainly about China, specifically what we know of now as BRI... so was this just happenstance, or true planning ahead, or bunch of retroactive revisionists pat on the back?
There's strong evidence to believe that it was planned. Geopolitics is an overarching theme in American power projection. The goal is to maintain status as a dominating force on the World Island (Eurasia) despite being situated on the peripheral islands. One way to achieve that is to fracture any cohesion within the world island and maintain footholds. Lanes of communication would be forced to point towards the oceans that surround Eurasia which will be dominated by the US Navy.

Geographically 5 eyes are all situated around the world island. They are all smaller islands the surround the main World Island thus have similar geopolitical imperatives, it's just that America is by far the largest player. Zbigniew Brzezinski was the main geopolitical strategist for America during the last few decades, his school of thought lives on through his disciples whom work in non-elected areas of influence in DC. It don't see that changing whether it's democrat or republican. I recommend reading his book the Grand Chessboard.

General Wesley Clark was responsible for planning the Iraq War but the idea of invading Iraq and how it fits into greater geopolitics came from higher up. Initially even he was confused as to why invasion of Iraq was necessary, especially in the context of "War on Terror". He was sceptical towards the connection between Saddam and Al-Qaeda. In some other videos he explicitly mentions the geopolitical motivation of invasion of Iraq which he didn't initially think of.

"...but in fact the why of it went back a decade, to the spring of 1991. It went back to the argument inside the republican party about whether or not the gulf war should have ended with the capture of Baghdad and the overthrow of Saddam Hussain. And in 1991 when I talked to secretary Wolfowitz, you know what he said, 'we didn't get rid of Saddam Hussain and we should have'. He said we only have 5 or 10 years to clean up the middle east, these old soviet surrogate regimes like Syria and Iraq. Get rid of them before the next superpower comes along to challenge us..."

To the American strategists at the time it wasn't likely that China would rise so quickly if at all beyond a labour intensive processing location. In retrospect some Americans say allowing China to join the WTO was a grave strategic mistake but it really wasn't obvious at the time. At the time China just laid off 40 million state workers who were accustomed to the "iron rice bowl" system of the SOEs after the Asian financial crisis. Either way American strategists thought it doesn't matter who the rising power would be. They would see a very similar geopolitical reality as the Americans and must alter the fundamentals within the era of power vacuum before the next superpower rises. That timeline was perceived to be 5-10 years. The actual implementation took much longer than expected and the next power rose much faster than expected.

7 countries in 5 years. "starting with Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and finishing off Iran". This was an interview from 2007. Syrian civil war started in 2011 and still ongoing, Lebanon is failing as a state, Libyan civil war started in 2014 and still in turmoil, Somalia is a failed state, Sudan was split into 2 countries in 2011 and in constant conflict, Iran is still holding on and the last one on their list. There exists a longer version of this interview.

Hawkish members of the PLA was fairly clear on the state of the world though might not have been popular at the time due to the overall political climate. Dai Xu in 2009 did a talk about his own projections on the coming "harvest" of China by America with frictions between the 2 nations coming to a climax around 2030. He explains many of the fundamental factors that will create this situation. In the 2000s Dai Xu was very critical of China's heavy reliance upon international trade as a percentage of GDP and concentration in non-advanced sectors. This made a dramatic shift over the last 10-15 years.
 
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