Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
Are you replying to me? China can't invade itself, it can only liberate territory controlled by rebel groups. Those rebel groups that commit treason by changing the Constitution and squatting on Chinese land.

Who to negotiate with? Most responsible governments have a don't negotiate with terrorists policy, China included. Treasonous elements, terrorists are the same in my books.

As far as I know, legit governments all around the world make rules, and the people follow them. If not, the cops get sent in. We see plenty of that recently in bastions of freedom USA recently. So yes, follow government rules or else they will shoot you, or in some countries like US, follow rules they will shoot too.

China cannot force the Chinese in TW Island to not identify themselves taiwanese nationals. They are free to build a nation elsewhere that is permissible to the host nation, that is their right. But they cannot build it on TOP the island call TW island without the permission of 1.4b Chinese.

That is the most basic premise that most 'independent" arguers choose to ignore. Because it dismantle all their stand immediately.

Any negotiation that might occur is only on the level of autonomy, not on the sovereign status.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Many Taiwanese seem to have the attitude that the mainland should respect them more and treat them nicer. Well, respect is earned through blood and sweat. It has been this way ever since the start of civilization. It will continue to be like this for the remaining days of mankind. It’s been the same with both powerful empires as well as small islands. Americans, Chinese and Russians all earned their respect through wars with blood and lives. Ask yourself this, have you bled and sweat enough to earn any respect from your enemy / adversary? If not, what right do you have to demand respect?

If you are not willing to bleed and die for your cause, then live with the consequences of your decision. That means Taiwan will be forever a part of China. And China will forever treat Taiwan like a crying little baby as they are.
 

LCR34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Many Taiwanese seem to have the attitude that the mainland should respect them more and treat them nicer. Well, respect is earned through blood and sweat. It has been this way ever since the start of civilization. It will continue to be like this for the remaining days of mankind. It’s been the same with both powerful empires as well as small islands. Americans, Chinese and Russians all earned their respect through wars with blood and lives. Ask yourself this, have you bled and sweat enough to earn any respect from your enemy / adversary? If not, what right do you have to demand respect?

If you are not willing to bleed and die for your cause, then live with the consequences of your decision. That means Taiwan will be forever a part of China. And China will forever treat Taiwan like a crying little baby as they are.
Back in Ma's time, tourism between Taiwan and Mainland blossomed. More Taiwanese corporation invested in China. More bilateral trades. There were less talks about unification or independence. I would forever miss those honeymoon years. Since Tsai assumed power, more lunatics and fanatics appeared. Its sad really. Much of the peace and mutual understanding has been undone.
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
China cannot force the Chinese in TW Island to not identify themselves taiwanese nationals. They are free to build a nation elsewhere that is permissible to the host nation, that is their right. But they cannot build it on TOP the island call TW island without the permission of 1.4b Chinese.

That is the most basic premise that most 'independent" arguers choose to ignore. Because it dismantle all their stand immediately.

Any negotiation that might occur is only on the level of autonomy, not on the sovereign status.

China can certainly enforce a reeducation of those Chinese who have been fed disinformation by the "imperialist west" and their lackeys in Taiwan. 70 years of continuous anti-China propaganda might be only rectified by enforced and mandatory re-education under police supervision. So, yes, China can force them to identify themselves as Chinese with sufficient re-education.

People do not realize that such re-education and rebranding has happened many times in history and will continue to happen. Its just a matter of power. Does China have the power to dominate Its coastal regions and obtain absolute guarantee of victory no matter how much power US throws at it?


Maybe not now but certainly in the future. Once China achieve that level of power it will do whatever it takes to ensure those Taiwanese change their minds. I think the Taiwanese themselves will change their minds once they are faced with overwhelming power. Most Taiwanese still think Chinese are cowards, falling apart, cheating and totally inferior compared to them. Only power can change this delusion.
 

weig2000

Captain
Gentle pleading to everyone: let's stop the political arguments that have gone on for the last couple pages. This is, after all, a thread about Taiwan military news and reports. Let's not derail it for too long.

I fully understand the emotional outpouring and rational arguments from both sides. I've done my share in this forum many times and elsewhere over many years. All the arguments have been made many times and there are hardly any new angles. I believe the recent developments over the issue of Taiwan have made the final showdown/resolution accelerated. We should keep an eye on its development.
 

weig2000

Captain
@Equation
The CCP and PLA conquered the mainland. But not Taiwan. The civil war on the mainland ended in the PRC. But the Battle of Kinmen ended active campaign. A line in the water was drawn. Both sides dug in.

Some historical notes. The military campaign and conflict between mainland and Taiwan continued long after the Battle of Kinmen ended in 1949, in many places along the coastal areas and over many islands. In fact, the artillery exchanges over and around Kinmen lasted until the end of 1978, right before the establishment of diplomatic relationship between the US and PRC. On January 1st, 1979, Chairman of the National People's Congress, Ye Jianying, announced the end of military hostilities and pursuit of a peaceful reunification policy. It must be noted that this is a domestic policy within a single sovereign country. In fact, there was call for a third cooperation between CCP and KMT at the time: the first cooperation between CCP and KMT ended in 1927 after the Northern March over the warlords to unify the country; the second cooperation started right after the Japanese invasion of China in 1937 and ended in 1946 when the civil war started. In other words, the current peace could cease to exist and the civil war could start again if the peaceful reunification initiative fails.

Another note on Kinmen Islands. It is well known in China but probably less known outside that the reason PRC did not recover Kinmen Island afterwards is not because PRC lacked military capacity to take over them - Kinmen Islands are only a few kilometers away from Xiamen. It was because at the time and over many years, PRC lacked military means and capacity to recover Taiwan Island while Kinmen is so much closer to mainland, therefore PRC could maintain a level of military engagement with Taiwan. Otherwise, it was concerned, that Taiwan could declare independence and PRC could not do much at the time. That was also why, for many years, PRC only conducted artillery shelling of Kinmen Islands every other day, "so the ROC military could take a break in between."

The bottom-line is, the relationship between CCP and KMT, then PRC and ROC, and by extension now mainland China and Taiwan, is that of internal affair with civil war and peace on and off again. The long peace between mainland China and Taiwan since 1979 has made some people forget the nature of the relationship.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Going back to the military side of things, this piece by Eric Chen is a real hoot.

Claim #1) PLA forces are somehow going to be more vulnerable to Taiwan drones after they land (apparently the PLA already has such preexisting fire support superiority that PLA loitering munitions/drones are just redundant, so Taipei doesn't have to worry about them. His idea, not mine).

Bonus: Apparently the support infrastructure for maintaing, operating and massing UAS/loitering munitions is immune to PLA attacks of any king

Claim #2) The ROCAF can use F-5 UAS as decoy to go over to the Mainland and smoke out HQ-9s and S-400/S-300s and pose as strike aircraft, since the PLAAF/PLANAF air patrols have all gone on extended leave (Shall I inform Mr. Chan about the J-6 UAS conversions, or would one of my fellow SDFers like to do the honors?)

Claim #3) Think differently. That's obviously not going to work if think differently means "have bizarre ideas about PLAAF/PLANAF air to air capability and drone warfare and operations in general).

Arsenal of Ideas: Because of course, if you can implement common sense public health measures, then you can magically wish hard enough to somehow overcome a 10:1 deficit in defense spending and 28:1 GDP deficit.

Clearly the USAF isn't getting its money's worth from Mr. Chan (unless he's budgeted under the Entertainment category)

The Taiwan army major traced his finger in a swooping arc across the map. “The extended distances that UAVs can now cover means that everything is now a target. How do we defend against this?” He then looked expectantly out at our delegation.

One of our delegation members stood up, with a smile that would have done credit to a shark. “A good question, but allow me to submit that first, your adversary can already target you without the use of UAVs. Second, UAVs are an asymmetric weapon. Your adversary is coming to you — make them worry about how to defend against your UAVs.”

That stirred up an audible reaction. During the break afterwards, the major sought me out. “Is that person a fire-eater, or what?” — with a nod and a smile, inviting me to agree. “No, she’s being realistic,” I replied. “Things are getting to the point where not being a ‘fire-eater’ is the risky option.” The major looked at me, bemused (and probably wondering if the entire U.S. delegation would be dining on flames for lunch).

However, the recently concluded Armenia-Azerbaijan War has been fairly conclusive proof about the advisability of my colleague’s recommendations. From the various after-action reports coming from the conflict, I identify three primary lessons for the Taiwan military.

Play the Game of Drones


In operational considerations of a Taiwan conflict, there is an overwhelming focus on air and sea control. Taiwan’s Overall Defense Concept (ODC) emphasizes
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,” while published writings from China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) reciprocate with a focus on the
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use of massed missiles to destroy Taiwan airpower and paralyze defensive capability.

However, the first and most obvious lesson of the Armenia-Azerbaijan war is that through massed unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), it is possible for ground forces to cheaply replicate elements of a robust air force at a localized level.

As demonstration of this, the Azerbaijanis used
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, and
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, to devastating effect. Against an entrenched opponent, the strikes decimated the fixed command posts, logistics centers, and assembly areas, badly weakening Armenian defenses. Reinforcing heavy armor received the same treatment, only worse; caught out in the open, with predictable lines of advance,
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. The destruction of Armenian armor and mechanized forces was crucial in allowing
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, which effectively ended the war.

In the case of a successful landing of the PLA on Taiwan, Taiwan would be on the strategic defensive. Given expected PLA Air Force air superiority, small radar-evading UAS may mean the difference between the Taiwan army being forced to remain in an operationally defensive role or having the ability to take the offensive during a period of high vulnerability for the PLA. The PLA, like the Armenians, would be fixed in place while desperately bringing up enough logistical capability to go on the offensive – which would then be on predictable lines of advance to Taipei. This would actually be a worse scenario than having the initial invasion armada destroyed at sea, because a partial but inadequate landing force would not be able to easily retreat, would continue to be a massive resource sink for the PLA, and would essentially be a marooned hostage if the U.S. Air Force and Navy destroyed resupply capability.

Unleash the Decoy Ducks

One of the greatest advantages the PLA holds over the Taiwan military is the ability to conduct precision missile saturation. The
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of accurate land-attack cruise missiles and
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have made the PLA Rocket Force the
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now
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than ever.

Previously, the Second Artillery (now PLA Rocket Force, PLARF) development of short range ballistic missiles was meant as a counter to the expected qualitative advantage of Taiwan’s Republic of China Air Force (ROCAF) platforms and training;
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, most analysts still predicted ROCAF air superiority over the PLAAF in an invasion scenario. However, in a demonstration of the rapid evolution and growth of PLA capabilities, the main focus of the PLARF is no longer on developing short-range missiles to counter Taiwan defense, but
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to counter and deter U.S. intervention.

Herein lies another opportunity demonstrated by the Armenia-Azerbaijan War. Azerbaijan used a significant number of
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to locate Armenian air defense and artillery. These decoys were quite low-tech: the pilots simply aimed at the cheap biplanes at Armenian lines, strapped the controls with belts to maintain course, and bailed out. Paired with strike UAS, this proved to be an extremely cost-effective method of revealing and then targeting an enemy air defense.

Similarly, the Taiwan military could massively expand a cheap decoy fleet, with a main mission of complicating adversary targeting calculus and forcing missile expenditure. This could be a mix of UAS, biplanes, even aging fighters: Taiwan is in the
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, which could instead be repurposed as missile bait. In the hands of a more technically sophisticated power than Azerbaijan, unmanned decoys could spoof attacks not just against an invasion force, but against targets in China – thus forcing ever-increasing PLA expenditures on base-hardening, missile/UAS defense, and raising the specter among Chinese Communist Party (CCP) leadership that the consequences of a Taiwan war cannot be isolated.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Don’t Fight Like They Expect You to Fight

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Prior to the development of the ODC, Taiwan strategy focused on creating a
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: the ROC Marine Corps would defend the outer-lying islands until overwhelmed; the ROC Navy would fight in the Taiwan Strait until overwhelmed; the ROC Army would conduct anti-landing operations; the ROC Air Force would seek to absorb the initial PLAAF and PLARF strikes in
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and then come out to fight. This plan was essentially static for over 40 years, and completely predictable – particularly after
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via Chinese intelligence operations.

The issue of predictability was not limited to operations. With the United States as Taiwan’s main equipment supplier, the Taiwan military also picked up many of the habits of the U.S. military – not just the way the U.S. fights, but also the service cultures and
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that incentivized buying high-end platforms. While there has been a veritable plethora of articles recommending the Taiwan military shift from
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, there has been considerably less attention on the utility of thinking differently about fighting.

For the Armenians, this proved to be fatal. While there was
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what the Azerbaijanis were prepared to fight against, the slow rate of change meant that Armenia ended up with a flood of volunteers
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. These forces were then
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by a way of war that had nothing to do with the old Soviet firepower-attrition method that gave Armenia the victory in 1994. The Armenians were fixed and then destroyed – not just in position, but mentally as well.

In Taiwan’s case, this lesson calls for a military able to consider multiple ways of war past the U.S. model, which is expeditionary, air-centric, mobile – and backed up by a massive resource/manpower base. The U.S. model addresses problems that Taiwan does not need to worry about, with a base that Taiwan does not have. Moreover, not being fixated on one operating model means having greater mental flexibility to take lessons from multiple ways of war. For instance, Finland, Sweden, and Singapore all have some similarities to Taiwan’s defense situation, both in terms of equipment and threat; another model, particularly for Taiwan reserve units, would be to implement lessons learned from the U.S. experience of 20 years of counterinsurgency — specifically from the operating methods and skillsets of the insurgents.

An Arsenal of Ideas

A number of years ago, during one of the cyclical downturns in U.S.-China relations, Beijing reached to one of its standard ways of expressing displeasure: cutting off military-to-military relations with the U.S. I fielded a call from an irate war college professor, who wanted to confirm if it was true that the China regional studies trip he had been planning all year long was dead in the water.

I regretfully confirmed the facts of life, but tried to cheer him up: “Your class can learn quite a bit in Taiwan, you know.” There was a slight pause on the other end. “Yes, but… we’d just be seeing a lot of old 1980s U.S. equipment.” (I wanted to point out that any trip to China would have just involved seeing a lot of old 1980s PLA equipment, but I held back from the smart remark.)

I remembered this exchange in the present day when reading the after-action reports of the Armenia-Azerbaijan War. Azerbaijan used a mix of modern (but hardly cutting edge) and old systems in innovative ways, cleverly turning an assessed Armenian strength – fortified defenses – into a deadly weakness. More important than equipment is the thinking behind the use of the equipment.

It’s true that China is certainly no Armenia, but on the other hand, Taiwan is also significantly stronger economically than Azerbaijan: Taiwan’s GDP is some 14 times larger than that of Azerbaijan’s, and it is much more technologically sophisticated, to boot. Taiwan has recently demonstrated an impressive ability to wield organization and technology – a veritable Arsenal of Ideas – to defeat a wide range of adversaries, from
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to
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. The key to Taiwan’s survival will be to constantly experiment, using this Arsenal of Ideas to offset an adversary with far greater firepower. Therein lies the final lesson of Armenia-Azerbaijan War, encapsulated in the old British Special Air Service motto: “Who Dares, Wins.”

Eric Chan is a specialist in Chinese/Korean political and security affairs, working as a China/Korea advisor for the U.S. Air Force’s Checkmate office. The opinions expressed in this article are the author’s alone and do not represent the views of his employer.

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weig2000

Captain
It's funny that I wrote somewhere else today that one of the lessons that PLA can learn from the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan War is to employ drones to attack ROC's tanks supposedly gathered to expel the PLA landing forces. This was in response to a recent article by David Axe in Forbes (
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). So it's good Eric Chan has the same idea, even if it's for the opposing side. Great minds think alike, I suppose. The only problem is that PRC is one of the world's top drone producers and exporters, and clearly has superiority over ROC both quantitatively and qualitatively in its drone arsenal.

This is just one of many novel and bizarre ideas promoted by American military professionals, quasi-professionals or retired professionals, once the Trump administration opened the floodgate of arms sales to Taiwan. They also somewhat mirror the dozens of pro-Taiwan/poking-China bils that have passed or are waiting to be passed by Congress. I suppose all these have to run its course, before people start to realize how unrealistic and self-serving these ideas are. Meanwhile, PRC will invest heavily in the targeted systems and platforms for the Taiwan contingency, without much fanfare.
 
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