Chinese semiconductor industry

[Kancil]

unbounded cowardice and despicable cowards!

someone like this surfaces from time to time. just give you two recent examples to show how powerful the America is: 1. they wanted Taiwan as an observer in the WHO, despite of all Trump's tantrums and threats, they could not have their way; US and UK put China to the UN Security Council for HK, they never received a hearing.

free_6ix9ine wants the Chinese to join the North American Red Indians.

 

[Kancil]

You're not giving facts; you're giving opinions and guesses and putting those in a vacuum where China and the world don't react. The fact is, that against Huawei, American sanctions aren't working as they usually do against others and lots of people and countries are disgusted by American behavior. China has a hell of a lot more economic pull than it ever did with the US economy in the dumpster. Chinese nationalism sent Huawei domestic sales through the roof after the Google ban and any Chinese company that wants to survive wouldn't want backlash against that.

But to be honest, with the size of the Chinese market, Huawei wouldn't be in the pits even if it were just a domestic company. It would still grow and probably re-surge at some point in the future internationally as China continues to out-grow the US.

Spineless behavior won't save the day for China. It will only encourage the Bully. China must resolutely build up her technologies to counter the Big Bad Bully from across the pond.

 

[free_6ix9ine]

EUVL is easier said than done. Unless can break patent barrier by ASML. I'm not optimistic EUVL in China can be done in few years, my reason is very simple no prototype yet available. Its take 17 years to ASML+(Samsung and TSMC) to produce EUVL form prototype to high volume manufacturing. As long no prototype had ben made, its gonna long time. my generous estimate prototype ± 1-3years.

Compare with EUV, SMEE have huge experience on DUV. According to information in this forum SMIC and Huawei already receive prototype 28nm DUV tools. On short term the biggest bet on China semiconductor is working on DUV with 3D chip stacking.

But a prototype has been made.

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Abstract
In this paper, a CO2 laser induced discharge plasma extreme ultraviolet (EUV) source experimental device was established. The optical emission spectroscopy was used to diagnose the characteristics of the plasma, and the evolution of electron temperature and electron density with time was obtained. The influence of discharge voltage on plasma parameters was analyzed and discussed. The EUV radiation characteristics of the plasma were investigated by self-made grazing incidence EUV spectrometer. The EUV radiation intensity and conversion efficiency were discussed.

 

[Wangxi]

VIA sells technologies including x86 to Shanghai Zhaoxin for $257 million

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[mderfox]

You do realize a lot of those 17 years was studying the basic physics of how to make it work and developing an adequate light source right? All that work has already been done and is well known now. China doesn’t need to reinvent those 17 years of research, tinkering, and component tech development to assemble their own instrument now.

who said 17 years study basic physic?? its from working prototype EUVL machine with code Alpha Demo Tools in 2006. ASML already start assign project on working porotype in 2001. Its takes 5 years without sanction with unlimited access any best technology and tools.

yes I do admit China will take less tortuous path with ASML as guideline, but in return China need to pull more resources to bypass patent barrier. As long China trading with outside world they need respect patent. They have to protect know than in 20 years ago.

 

[manqiangrexue]

who said 17 years study basic physic?? its from working prototype EUVL machine with code Alpha Demo Tools in 2006. ASML already start assign project on working porotype in 2001. Its takes 5 years without sanction with unlimited access any best technology and tools.

yes I do admit China will take less tortuous path with ASML as guideline, but in return China need to pull more resources to bypass patent barrier. As long China trading with outside world they need respect patent. They have to protect know than in 20 years ago.

Well, China needs the chips to power devices; it doesn't need to export EUV machines at all. The items sold are chips and devices. So if the first version Chinese EUV violates ASML's IP but is never sold abroad and confined to high security fabrication labs in China, how would a hostile power get to open one up and discover patent infringement, much less obtain the legal proof required in court?

 

[mderfox]

But a prototype has been made.

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Abstract
In this paper, a CO2 laser induced discharge plasma extreme ultraviolet (EUV) source experimental device was established. The optical emission spectroscopy was used to diagnose the characteristics of the plasma, and the evolution of electron temperature and electron density with time was obtained. The influence of discharge voltage on plasma parameters was analyzed and discussed. The EUV radiation characteristics of the plasma were investigated by self-made grazing incidence EUV spectrometer. The EUV radiation intensity and conversion efficiency were discussed.

Thats not working EUVL tools prototype.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Thats not working EUVL tools prototype.

But the difficult part is the light source the rest is just extremely fine electro mechanical design which I have no doubt China can master in no time

 

[mderfox]

Well, China needs the chips to power devices; it doesn't need to export EUV machines at all. The items sold are chips and devices. So if the first version Chinese EUV violates ASML's IP but is never sold abroad and confined to high security fabrication labs in China, how would a hostile power get to open one up and discover patent infringement, much less obtain the legal proof required in court?

In theory's its can happened. but I don't think Government will do. if this get caught it will damage confidence other country's to China. Its take 42 years China to gain world confidence to do business in China. The best way is blatantly violate ASML patent and bring litigation in court. it will takes years, but after that's just pay fines. As many MNC do.

 

[free_6ix9ine]

Thats not working EUVL tools prototype.

Do you know what your talking about? It's the light source. That and the mirrors are the core parts. The mirrors are also complete. Someone find the link.