Chinese Economics Thread

[hullopilllw]

My first reaction is whether this is a farce or fake news. The desperation sounds so... desperate - I'm out of words.

He seems to think that IPO is made possible due to Wallstreet, thus conferring US the rights to delay. But hello the IPO is on HK and Shanghai. And yes Billions worth under Blackrock, Fidelity and JP.Morgan are lining up to rushing into Ant.

 

[vincent]

Wouldn't the Kra Canal project, if it goes ahead also solve the Melacca straits vulnerability?

this question is like women’s period. Look at the map and see who owns the islands on the other side

 

[gadgetcool5]

Lets remember what Carl Schmitt said about politics.

"The specific political distinction to which political actions and motives can be reduced is that between friend and enemy."

Does that not strike you as true on an instinctual level?

Of course it resonates.

So lets ask ourselves what exactly is irritating about gadgetcool's post?

It is because, on every single issue, he takes the side of America. By saying that China is not justified in pursuing these actions, that these are not conflicts worth fighting, he is implicitly supporting the other side.

That is, he is advocating for the enemy. Yet he pretends he is your friend, and that listening to him will bring good things.

Is it not obvious that such an approach can only lead to outrage from those who have a clear eye of the stakes of these conflicts?

Especially when he defends a regime as murderous as the USA, one that just today openly declared its intention to starve innocent Iranians into submission? Just because Trump, on a whim, destroyed a key piece of diplomacy for his own base?

How can we take someone who professes such a great admiration for human rights and dignity, and at the same time legitimizes a regime that is killing thousands of innocent Muslims day by day? That revels in such death, that celebrates it as "the unleashing of American power?"

How is the defense of such an immoral regime in the interest of China?

First of all, like I said, I only say these things because this forum is filled with Chinese nationalists.

Oh my Western social media accounts I am a hardcore wumao. I advocate for the CPC.

My only interest is in moderating both sides, because I think it is in the interest of each side. That is why I present the moderating opinion for each.

Think about your framing. You are already framing America as "the enemy."

With this kind of framing, of course you won't possibly see the gains of cooperation.

In reality the two sides are not "China" and "America" but "Smart" and "Dumb" and it's dumb to get into fights and smart to work together.

Finally, I would not mention Carl Schmitt because he is a Nazi. Did the Nazis bring Germany to glory? No they brought it to ruin. And why? Because the Nazis started one too many fights with bigger countries that all allied against them. They tried to lead a smaller, less populous, economically weaker, technologically weaker alliance of only a few Axis countries against the much more populous, economically stronger Allied powers. The same as China is doing as it gets into a Cold War with the West and India with no real allies except Pakistan and maybe Russia.

"Answer, he was waiting for a time when China is strong enough to retake Taiwan, Hong Kong, and be a strong, dominant player in the world stage. As is befitting an ancient civilization like China. It was not his plan to dissolve in Western Neoliberalism, to accept Washington's narrative forever. You seem confused on this issue."

Well China is not strong enough to do any of that yet, except Hong Kong which it already took in 1997. So I guess China didn't bide its time or hide its strength long enough. Where are China's allies? Do you really think China, Russia and Pakistan by themselves are strong enough to dominate the world? Not even close. Look at how the US destroyed Huawei in a matter of only a few months. The US has hundreds of bases ringed around China. And I don't see the PRC flag in Taipei, do you? China cannot even control a tiny island off its own border and it is talking about dominating the world.

Guess what, when PLA troops are marching in Washington DC, you have dominated the world. I say the same thing to you as Admiral Yamamoto said to the IJN.

It's a fantasy.

 

[manqiangrexue]

It is as if a man who has just gotten a promotion, ideal career, ideal wife, ideal kids, one day suddenly decides to pick up a gun, point it at his own face, and pull the trigger.

I was wondering what about this post, other than the general wrongness that abounds in all of your posts, disgusted me so much. And now I know: it's the lack of ambition that you dared project on China. What kind of man do you think China is? A man who just wants a nice house, nice car, and comfortable life? You have projected your own spinelessness onto the whole country! China is a man who has ambitions the size of the planet; he will accept being second to no one; he will fight for his power and his place! He cannot be bribed by comfort to abandon his quest; his humble beginnings and his quick successes are not be be rested on. He was merely building a base from which he can fight to achieve his ambitions. So yes, there will be more hardships ahead that could have been avoided if he had just lowered his head and accepted others' rule and their injustices. But China is not such a man. When China picks up a gun, it is to fight for honor and glory even if he forsakes comfort. The struggles that you have the honor of witnessing are the quest of a man who fights to right the world and become a king.

 

[emblem21]

I don't get it.

If the Americans strike at this deal and sanction Chinese interests, China will strike back financially.

This could lead to financial war.

This could lead to a dollar crisis. We already know who is broke and printing money.

So the Americans want to initiate a potential dollar crisis?

Financial markets could go bonkers. What about "exorbitant privilege", will that survive?

Sounds like a plan to me!

One thing to note is that the actions of the USA has progressively become more and more self defeating (I mean Trump is egging on kidnappers just this morning, in regards to there attempt to kidnap the governor of Michigan for crying out loud). Really, its like they want to depopulate the USA along with bankrupting it at the same time with the way they are dividing and conquering the nation (I could understand if they are doing this China but why are they targeting themselves for the most part). But I guess they are beyond reason at this point, the only problem is that they haven't going into full collapse mode yet since if any of these things happened to an average country, they would have been doomed already. I guess they bigger the are, the hard they fall but I guess it also means they long it takes for them to fall as well

 

[manqiangrexue]

First of all, like I said, I only say these things because this forum is filled with Chinese nationalists.

Oh my Western social media accounts I am a hardcore wumao. I advocate for the CPC.

Are you getting paid 0.5 RMB per post? Because only really hardcore brainwashed Westerners believe that there are wumao. Chinese people don't use that term to describe themselves, hence you being Japanese.

My only interest is in moderating both sides, because I think it is in the interest of each side. That is why I present the moderating opinion for each.

You are not fit to moderate anything and no one accepts your request to do so. Don't flatter yourself; in actuality, you're the mobile fool. You go here to be ridiculed, then you go there to be ridiculed. You don't even have a stable opinion and are respected nowhere. China's interest is to become the strongest country in the world; America's interest is to stay the most powerful country in the world. This is no common interest.

Think about your framing. You are already framing America as "the enemy."

Yes, because obviously, America is China's adversary. They are trying every trick to delay China's rise. You don't think that's an enemy? You have real shitty friends...

With this kind of framing, of course you won't possibly see the gains of cooperation.

I don't either. Both countries want to be number one. Will they cooperate to both be number 1? LOL

In reality the two sides are not "China" and "America" but "Smart" and "Dumb" and it's dumb to get into fights and smart to work together.

Unfortunately, you're on the dumb side so your arguments don't even make sense. Don't try to get China to work with America; try to get America to work with China. After that, we can talk.

Finally, I would not mention Carl Schmitt because he is a Nazi. Did the Nazis bring Germany to glory? No they brought it to ruin. And why? Because the Nazis started one too many fights with bigger countries that all allied against them. They tried to lead a smaller, less populous, economically weaker, technologically weaker alliance of only a few Axis countries against the much more populous, economically stronger Allied powers. The same as China is doing as it gets into a Cold War with the West and India with no real allies except Pakistan and maybe Russia.

Nazis have nothing to do with China. You and the Indians know nothing about Nazis. Every time there might be a hypothetical conflict, the smaller force doesn't automatically become the "Nazi," which, by the way, were actually more technologically-advanced than the allies but could not keep up with the attrition of a conventional foot-soldier war. You're cheapening what the real Nazis did. There are not that many Nazis in the world; if anything most of them are in America right now fighting for white supremacy.

And also, Russia's alliance is not a detail or an afterthought. Russia is about the biggest game changer there is between the US and China. These are the big 3 of the world.

 

[SPOOPYSKELETON]

First of all, like I said, I only say these things because this forum is filled with Chinese nationalists.

Oh my Western social media accounts I am a hardcore wumao. I advocate for the CPC.

My only interest is in moderating both sides, because I think it is in the interest of each side. That is why I present the moderating opinion for each.

Think about your framing. You are already framing America as "the enemy."

With this kind of framing, of course you won't possibly see the gains of cooperation.

"Moderating opinion." I am genuinely amazed this is how you choose to present yourself. Do you honestly think you are presenting a moderating opinion here? The results speak for themselves.

In reality the two sides are not "China" and "America" but "Smart" and "Dumb" and it's dumb to get into fights and smart to work together.

This does not describe the actual reality, where smart people on both sides of the Cold War fought each other to the death. "Cooperation" as a smart tactic only makes sense if your goal is to live an easy life, not if you are driven to dominate and subjugate. Horribly out of touch.

Finally, I would not mention Carl Schmitt because he is a Nazi. Did the Nazis bring Germany to glory? No they brought it to ruin. And why? Because the Nazis started one too many fights with bigger countries that all allied against them. They tried to lead a smaller, less populous, economically weaker, technologically weaker alliance of only a few Axis countries against the much more populous, economically stronger Allied powers. The same as China is doing as it gets into a Cold War with the West and India with no real allies except Pakistan and maybe Russia.

Spare me. Your government feasted on Nazi technology and put them right back in charge once the Cold War started. Don't tell me you are afraid of this single quote from him. Regardless, you have deliberately missed the content of my post concerning your own actions. If poor communication is a problem of China's, then you are a good example of that.

 

[emblem21]

First of all, like I said, I only say these things because this forum is filled with Chinese nationalists.

Oh my Western social media accounts I am a hardcore wumao. I advocate for the CPC.

My only interest is in moderating both sides, because I think it is in the interest of each side. That is why I present the moderating opinion for each.

Think about your framing. You are already framing America as "the enemy."

With this kind of framing, of course you won't possibly see the gains of cooperation.

In reality the two sides are not "China" and "America" but "Smart" and "Dumb" and it's dumb to get into fights and smart to work together.

Finally, I would not mention Carl Schmitt because he is a Nazi. Did the Nazis bring Germany to glory? No they brought it to ruin. And why? Because the Nazis started one too many fights with bigger countries that all allied against them. They tried to lead a smaller, less populous, economically weaker, technologically weaker alliance of only a few Axis countries against the much more populous, economically stronger Allied powers. The same as China is doing as it gets into a Cold War with the West and India with no real allies except Pakistan and maybe Russia.

"Answer, he was waiting for a time when China is strong enough to retake Taiwan, Hong Kong, and be a strong, dominant player in the world stage. As is befitting an ancient civilization like China. It was not his plan to dissolve in Western Neoliberalism, to accept Washington's narrative forever. You seem confused on this issue."

Well China is not strong enough to do any of that yet, except Hong Kong which it already took in 1997. So I guess China didn't bide its time or hide its strength long enough. Where are China's allies? Do you really think China, Russia and Pakistan by themselves are strong enough to dominate the world? Not even close. Look at how the US destroyed Huawei in a matter of only a few months. The US has hundreds of bases ringed around China. And I don't see the PRC flag in Taipei, do you? China cannot even control a tiny island off its own border and it is talking about dominating the world.

Guess what, when PLA troops are marching in Washington DC, you have dominated the world. I say the same thing to you as Admiral Yamamoto said to the IJN.

It's a fantasy.

Just to note, China isn't an invasive force so the likely food that China will waste resources to invade Washington is simply silly. Also China as a nation has no interest to dominate the world like a western nation seeks to do so. Look at how the USA policy of war is causing all these problems with debt and actually creating terrorist that will one day come back to bite. Of course it would take much to put Taiwan into the ground, but the consequences are severe enough that China isn't stupid enough to be the one to throw the first punch.

Look at how the USA has abandoned the Kurds and I am, sure that if Taiwan already knows, if they commit to full independence, they will be in a world of hurt because cannot count on the USA for aid (other then selling weapons that are not top of the line stuff), hence, this is a self defeating idea. Also they saw how the USA has sanctioned HK for not following there democracy bullshit (all based on Joshua's plea for sanctions, and as a result, not many in there right might would support such a traitor ever again). Honestly, China is becoming a stronger player on the world stage and they have the USA to thank for it for doing so my stupid things (like leaving the Paris agreement and the WHO) and having China step up to the plate. There are set back yes for China, but really China's long game is coming along

 

[ahho]

If Alipay or Wechat become established in the USA, then Visa/Mastercard would have to slash their fees by 80% to compete.
Of course, we're unlikely to see that happen, particularly in the current climate.

Note that Europe has a 0.2%-0.3% cap on fees from Debit/Credit cards.

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Below is an old Bloomberg article on US payment fees versus Alipay/Wechat

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Didn't know that Europe have a cap on debit/credit fees. that actually helps small merchant a lot

Never understood why Google and Apple never peddle QR code pay and their e-wallet. I mean Wechat and Alipay, actually keeps your money in their corporate bank account and earn interest. The users, only pays to the other merchants e-wallet and the transaction does not occur at a bank level. Google and Apple have presence in a lot of countries and technically keep all the money gone through their e-wallet system and earn interest for them. This would also help travelers a lot, since travelers don't have to worry about not carrying enough local currency. Also street vendor don't have to pay transactions fee (probably just a withdrawal fee when they want to deposit funds from e-wallet to the bank).

I know there are a lot of banking regulations that could prevent this, but China faced the same issue and decided to work with Wechat and Alipay. I know other government are hesitant in using e-wallet from China or their model. All Google and Apple have to do is be successful in 1 or 2 country first, and other country would have no choice, but to follow suit. Basically a model has been set and other country may not want to fall behind once the 3rd and 4th country would start using e-wallet. This is good for business and travel industry

 

[ahho]

They might be put on the list, but they are not being taken out. HSBC is really big in cross country trade. RMB license are given to HSBC. China know that HSBC is being forced in between 2 major super power and will cut them some slack (unlike US where they fined them a lot, but HSBC was warned no less than 3 times to clear their act before being fined). HSBC would have to adjust their management style to handle both countries.

In the past, HSBC just have to worry about US. In the present, HSBC would have to worry about China and other upcoming big power and adjust their strategy.