U.S. military says copter down in Iraq

[crazyinsane105]

I also wonder who exactly some of the "Insurregents" actually are. My hunch is that a proportion of these incidents come from local Hard Men (ex Iraqi Army) who are simply complaining that they are not receiving enough "Good Boy" money from the Coalition.

IT begs the fundamental Iraqinomics question, is it cheaper; financially and politicaly, to pay these kinds of guys off, or hit them?

The US has already tried that. A lot of these insurgents are former ex-Iraqi military as you said, but Iraq is a country full of nationalism. These guys are nationalistic and have already said they are ready for negotiations IF A TIMETABLE FOR US TROOP WITHDRAWAL IS PASSED BY CONGRESS.

 

[MrClean]

Truthfully, how many ex-Iraqi army can there be? Especially the ones that still want to fight us? Its now known that alot of the ex-Iraqi Army now make up the new IDF and Police Force. Really most of the Iraqis themselves are fed up with the violence and thier country being destroyed, they just want a safe place to call there own.

The ones that are fighting us is all of these foreign fighters that are coming from ALL of the surrounding countries, not just one or two because there are radical militants all throughout that region that are just itching to pick a fight, so if they dont find a cause in their own country they go to Iraq and or Afghanistan to 'prove' themselves, its an ancient and time honored tradition. This tradition is known as Jihad.

Now about these choppers. Its obvious that a big chunk of the helos that were successfully brought down were done so by MANPADS, with a few exceptions, and Heavy Machine Guns like the 12.7 and 14mm "AA" guns. These couldn't have just been found out in the desert somewhere by the insurgents, they come from outside suppliers such as Iran who has already been known to fund and supply and train these insurgents to use their sophisticated weaponry such as their MANPADS and Heavy Machine Guns, and their special remote detonated Shaped Charge HEAT mines and IEDs that the insurgents love so much.

 

[crazyinsane105]

Truthfully, how many ex-Iraqi army can there be? Especially the ones that still want to fight us? Its now known that alot of the ex-Iraqi Army now make up the new IDF and Police Force. Really most of the Iraqis themselves are fed up with the violence and thier country being destroyed, they just want a safe place to call there own.

The ones that are fighting us is all of these foreign fighters that are coming from ALL of the surrounding countries, not just one or two because there are radical militants all throughout that region that are just itching to pick a fight, so if they dont find a cause in their own country they go to Iraq and or Afghanistan to 'prove' themselves, its an ancient and time honored tradition. This tradition is known as Jihad.

Now about these choppers. Its obvious that a big chunk of the helos that were successfully brought down were done so by MANPADS, with a few exceptions, and Heavy Machine Guns like the 12.7 and 14mm "AA" guns. These couldn't have just been found out in the desert somewhere by the insurgents, they come from outside suppliers such as Iran who has already been known to fund and supply and train these insurgents to use their sophisticated weaponry such as their MANPADS and Heavy Machine Guns, and their special remote detonated Shaped Charge HEAT mines and IEDs that the insurgents love so much.

Wrong brother. The majority (or should I say above 70-80%) of the Iraqi army is composed of Shias who have allegiances to groups like the Mehdi Army and the Badr Brigade. As for how many ex-Iraqi army personell there could be, well, Saddam's army was one that was mandatory for all men of fighting age to serve in it for several years. Recent studies have concluded (and been agreed upon by US military generals themselves) that foreign fighters make up an extremely small amount of the insurgency. Extremely small as in meaning probably less than 10%. The most powerful groups operating in Iraq (such as the Islamic Army of Iraq) are made up of Iraqis and are headed by officers and generals of Saddam's former regime. Like it or not, but the insurgents have proven themselves to be the most capable foe the Americans have battled since the Vietnam war. It's a wonder what a group that is armed with nothing more than AK's, RPG's, and old artillery shells could do for several years now.

Quite true the Iraqis hate the brutality tearing apart their country, but most of the blame (some wrongly so) is being pinned on the Americans. The insurgency has yet to weaken in terms of military strength, manpower, or influence but on the contrary, it seems to be growing stronger as the months and number of security crackdowns comeby.

 

[SampanViking]

The key point though is that Iraq is awash with Heavy Calibre A A Machine Guns (they had them on every armoured vehicle) no doubt there are still thousands of them stashed away throughout the country.

 

[crazyinsane105]

The key point though is that Iraq is awash with Heavy Calibre A A Machine Guns (they had them on every armoured vehicle) no doubt there are still thousands of them stashed away throughout the country.

Exactly. What is somewhat surprising though is that I don't hear of the insurgents using the heavier caliber weapons in their inventory (like the 23 or 30 mm AAA weapons). Saddam had one of the largest fleets of AAA guns, whatever happened to them? They couldn't all have been destroyed.

 

[Scratch]

Exactly. What is somewhat surprising though is that I don't hear of the insurgents using the heavier caliber weapons in their inventory (like the 23 or 30 mm AAA weapons). Saddam had one of the largest fleets of AAA guns, whatever happened to them? They couldn't all have been destroyed.

Well, those big guns are easier found, therefore I would think coalition and Iraqi forces destroyed or captured a greater part of them.
And then they are much more difficult to operate covered. Meaning when these are used, they probably would be found and destroyed faster. So perhaps insurgents try to preserve them. Because as it seems, they are rather effective with the assets they currently use.