Table has turned and the American politicians are now singing a different tune.
In any case based on US real actions instead of their empty rhetoric. US lectures on respecting human rights are not credible in HK and many other countries.
Hong-Kong Protests
- Thread starter Pika
- Start date
Table has turned and the American politicians are now singing a different tune.
In any case based on US real actions instead of their empty rhetoric. US lectures on respecting human rights are not credible in HK and many other countries.
Regarding that Trump labels the US protesters as ANTIFA, Hong Kong protesters have nothing to do with them
Nationalism comes in many flavors just like religious denominations.
In practice, the general population adheres to a moderate stance in order to maintain civilization. They reject extremists like rioters and people who wave foreign flags and call for foreign troops to save them.
China would not trust a white American guy waving a China flag and asking tor Chinese intervention. The US/UK would keep a tight leash on their falungong/extremist Hongkong assets.
Overzealous people are messed up in the head. No one wants to be near them. But many want to use them and things often backfire and don’t pan out as planned.
US will learn the hard way that their Hongkong assets are worthless and the liabilities will fall on the UK.
In practice, the general population adheres to a moderate stance in order to maintain civilization. They reject extremists like rioters and people who wave foreign flags and call for foreign troops to save them.
China would not trust a white American guy waving a China flag and asking tor Chinese intervention. The US/UK would keep a tight leash on their falungong/extremist Hongkong assets.
Overzealous people are messed up in the head. No one wants to be near them. But many want to use them and things often backfire and don’t pan out as planned.
US will learn the hard way that their Hongkong assets are worthless and the liabilities will fall on the UK.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
I think if you knew anything about Hong Kong, you'd know that there was a minority campaigning for independence long before any of the terrorism started. And really, the only way Beijing could have handled it better so that the thuggery would stop and no one would call for anything would be to emulate the American response and send in the military, start shooting at the very early stages. It thought that Hong Kong was civilized like other Chinese cities; it gave too much credit to those taught by the Brits.
Final reminder, the UK robbed something from China and knew it could keep it for long with China growing and the UK waning. This is no Argentina, so it had to find some way out before it loses Hong Kong in a very embarrassing and far less voluntary way. There is no good faith given for returning stolen property. And they can be funny and call for anybody for anything, but it is China's responsibility to show them that Hong Kong is China, and nobody's word except China's has weight there.
This has truly been a time of irony. First, a Chinese city was hit by riots, and America laughed and sat on its high horse until all of America became engulfed in riots. No matter how you may pretend and side-step the conversation going directly to conclude that Beijing handled something badly, point-to-point analysis shows that the master of the West fell far behind Beijing in tolerance and safeguarding human rights. Then COVID-19 struck one Chinese city, and America laughed and talked about its "superior" healthcare system until their entire country was engulfed by the virus, and numbers quickly showed that their healthcare systems and methods failed badly in comparison to Beijing's. To be honest, before all this, even I was sure that China would be harsher on rioters and that America, with less crowding and more hospital beds per capita, would better-handle a pandemic. What an eye-opening time! It shows people again and again, the CCP's accomplishments will make every bet against it a losing one. I wonder how many more aspects there are in which people just assume that the US would be ahead but in reality, has already been left far back in China's dust...
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
In a perverse way, I think the current protests may actually work to Trump’s benefit. Let’s face reality here, these protesters don’t have the organisation, money, arms or foreign support (no matter what the White House and right wing media claims) to amount to anything. Talk of ‘civil war’ is pure fantasy as the vast majority of the protestors are peaceful and unarmed. Just Trump’s hardcore armed supporters alone would massacre them like bunnies if it really came down to it, never mind the might of the US law enforcement and military.
His administration is already branding them as foreign-influenced useful idiots, a charge being enthusiastically repeated by his media supporters; the rioters are also not helping the case of the protesters, as the violence and destruction is turning most Americans against their cause, much as has happened in HK even if the western MSM likes to pretend otherwise.
In the short run, these protests are energising Trump’s base, with many armed groups already responding to Trump’s twitter call to arms. In the medium to long run, these protestors represent the perfect scapegoat for Trump.
When the COVID19 second wave hits, as anyone with any understanding of the outbreak is expecting it; Trump can now point to the protestors and blame them for causing it through the very act gathering in large groups to protest.
I am actually now worried that Trump might see their personal political advantage these protests represents, and deliberately enact policies designed to fuel and pro-long the protests.
If he is clever, he can start with a near over-reaction in terms of the severity of the crack down, to further fuel the anger of the protesters, while provoking the inevitable condemnations and lawsuits from the Democrats.
He can then ‘back down’ by reining in both law enforcement and his supporters, and also placing heavy restrictions on police to the point of handicapping their ability to handle the protests. which will inevitably result in a return to massed protests and riots.
He can then spend the next 3-4 months blaming the democrats for tying his hands and laying the blame for both the riots and continued COVID19 outbreak at their feet. Maybe he can even give Putin a call to ask him to use Russia troll farms to support the protestors.
Trump just need to bide his time for a few months, all the while blaming the Democrats, and then a few weeks before election time, he can make a big show of him having enough and unleashing the full power of the US state and his supporters to crush the protestors.
At that point, most Americans will probably be so fed up that they will cheer police brutality against the protestors; Trump’s base will be fired up and massively boosted by the ‘triumph’; and a sizeable portion of democrat voters will be in lock up and/or hospitals, and in no position to cast their votes.
His administration is already branding them as foreign-influenced useful idiots, a charge being enthusiastically repeated by his media supporters; the rioters are also not helping the case of the protesters, as the violence and destruction is turning most Americans against their cause, much as has happened in HK even if the western MSM likes to pretend otherwise.
In the short run, these protests are energising Trump’s base, with many armed groups already responding to Trump’s twitter call to arms. In the medium to long run, these protestors represent the perfect scapegoat for Trump.
When the COVID19 second wave hits, as anyone with any understanding of the outbreak is expecting it; Trump can now point to the protestors and blame them for causing it through the very act gathering in large groups to protest.
I am actually now worried that Trump might see their personal political advantage these protests represents, and deliberately enact policies designed to fuel and pro-long the protests.
If he is clever, he can start with a near over-reaction in terms of the severity of the crack down, to further fuel the anger of the protesters, while provoking the inevitable condemnations and lawsuits from the Democrats.
He can then ‘back down’ by reining in both law enforcement and his supporters, and also placing heavy restrictions on police to the point of handicapping their ability to handle the protests. which will inevitably result in a return to massed protests and riots.
He can then spend the next 3-4 months blaming the democrats for tying his hands and laying the blame for both the riots and continued COVID19 outbreak at their feet. Maybe he can even give Putin a call to ask him to use Russia troll farms to support the protestors.
Trump just need to bide his time for a few months, all the while blaming the Democrats, and then a few weeks before election time, he can make a big show of him having enough and unleashing the full power of the US state and his supporters to crush the protestors.
At that point, most Americans will probably be so fed up that they will cheer police brutality against the protestors; Trump’s base will be fired up and massively boosted by the ‘triumph’; and a sizeable portion of democrat voters will be in lock up and/or hospitals, and in no position to cast their votes.
What you're describing is the very essence of a civil war in the 21st century. Civil wars in contemporary America aren't fought with serried ranks of soldiers standing in fields and firing muskets at each other like in the first one. The US has a president who sees it in his political interest to let his country burn and a half of its citizens riot so the other half votes for him. What term other than "civil war" better describes this dysfunction?
More "foreigners" using this to their advantages. Lol. The blame game begins!
This video takes the blame game to a new height!
Meanwhile a satirical look of how this is confusing to the Hong Kong thugs! It is a confusing world! Lol.
For those don't read Chinese. I'm not going through all. Just the bottom on the left.
"Welcome US army in Hong Kong "! LOL
We are more alike than you think. Me having born a colonial subject and lived as a colonial subject. Please don't confuse Hong Kong situation with Goa. Any case it is way off topic. If you feel you like to discuss this, please start a discussion thread or use another existing thread.
I hate to disagree with you steely. But ANY is a strong word. I know quite alot of westerners are Marxist communists. And would be quite happy to want that to happen. In fact some thing China is not communists enough for them.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Well, ‘war’ needs two sides. If it’s just one side dishing it out while the other side just takes it and complains impotently, it’s not war, just victimisation and oppression.
There are, sadly, countless examples throughout history, all over the world, where one powerless group is oppressed and victimised by the powerful majority. None of those instances can be described as civil wars unless and until the oppressed minority gains enough power and resolve to fight back in a systematic and organised way to the national level.
Yes, oppressing a minority group is a major contributing factor to civil wars, but realistically, modern civil wars are only viable if the oppressed minority have a reliable foreign backer able to provide weapons, funds and leadership; and/or if a country has recently been ravaged by external invasion that massively degraded the state’s ability to police its own territory and unleashed large quantities of military grade weapons into general circulation. Obviously none of the able applies to the US, as no external power would dare to support any domestic US insurgency, as that would be a declaration of war.
I cannot think of any remotely modern examples where a civil war has broken out in a state absent a foreign backer and/or some event that massively degraded the state’s military and police capabilities beforehand.
The most ‘recent’ example I can think of is ironically the American Civil War. But that came about due to, above all else, the massive vested economics invested associated with slavery that simply does not exist in today’s America. In addition, it takes a degree of bloody-mindedness and belligerence to consciously pursue a deliberate course of action with civil war being a significant possibility that the vast majority of black lives matters supports simply lack.
Simply put, the liberal fringe who are most supportive of black rights are also the most passive and non-violent segments of US society. Can you honestly see vegans and hippies taking up arms and being willing and able to fight and kill for their beliefs? I don’t.
If there is one group within the US who has the mental attributes necessary, financing, organisation and motivating to actually push the US to the brink of a civil war like situation, it is Trump’s ‘good people’ supporters. But there is no need for those people to actually get involved here since the US state will fight their fight for them.