QBZ-191 service rifle family

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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also, some higher res pictures of the left and right sides of the carbine variant, including rail sections installed on the 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions.
I think we've had lower quality pictures of one of these before but none so high quality of both sides afaik

high res left.jpghigh res right.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
First by blade like I am not just talking about shape but shape and thickness. Simple curved like bolt handles aren’t new but they tend to have some “meat” on them so to speak. Look at the photos @EdgeOfEcho posted the AK models have a round handle nob like handle, 24D3C59D-55BF-4EA2-9187-8E721CCA4A1A.jpeg
Here we see some SKS the one on the right is the more common build type the the one on the left is Albanian from this perspective it’s blade like but it’s still just as thick as is foreign cousin. 946389E0-557F-4C1F-B979-68259A5FB3CF.jpeg
it could be the image but the one on the new rifles seems rather thin which has been a complaint on other rifles. Often leading to fixes. AR15, AK, and FN Scar have cottage industry to build upgraded handles today.
The AR has had at least four major revisions of the stock standard charging handle, which was originally very similar in style to the QBZ95 and connected directly to the bolt and metal which lead to issues of heat and a very unpleasant experience. They became T shaped but this was still the AR10 so the handle shrank to the AR15. The early wings weren’t very wide and so another revision to get a better grasp for the M16A2 iteration that became the standard for the modern AR. Still some take it farther General for those who use suppressed rifles due to the higher pressures sometimes opening the operation so they designed a beefier locking latch on the handle. In the case of SCAR it’s actually a little closer to my observation about the new type. The SCAR handle as stock is a little small and close to the rail system which can lead to shooters slamming their knuckles into optic base. Upgrades as such moved to increase the size but that can snag on gear so some fold. Yet even in the stock form it’s a knob type.
As a military rifle the operator has to be able to operate the weapon in any conditions that means cold wet in black of night And pull it to open it up even if it’s full of debris like ice or mud. The bigger the grip you can get the more leverage. This design I am not sure about. We haven’t seen any action drills with the rifle to be sure or how it breaks down. However this configuration seems to have been made based purely on it easily sliding down the channel. Possibly as all one piece. Where the SCAR types are separate parts.
 

EdgeOfEcho

Junior Member
Registered Member
First by blade like I am not just talking about shape but shape and thickness. Simple curved like bolt handles aren’t new but they tend to have some “meat” on them so to speak. Look at the photos @EdgeOfEcho posted the AK models have a round handle nob like handle,
Here we see some SKS the one on the right is the more common build type the the one on the left is Albanian from this perspective it’s blade like but it’s still just as thick as is foreign cousin.
it could be the image but the one on the new rifles seems rather thin which has been a complaint on other rifles. Often leading to fixes. AR15, AK, and FN Scar have cottage industry to build upgraded handles today.
The AR has had at least four major revisions of the stock standard charging handle, which was originally very similar in style to the QBZ95 and connected directly to the bolt and metal which lead to issues of heat and a very unpleasant experience. They became T shaped but this was still the AR10 so the handle shrank to the AR15. The early wings weren’t very wide and so another revision to get a better grasp for the M16A2 iteration that became the standard for the modern AR. Still some take it farther General for those who use suppressed rifles due to the higher pressures sometimes opening the operation so they designed a beefier locking latch on the handle. In the case of SCAR it’s actually a little closer to my observation about the new type. The SCAR handle as stock is a little small and close to the rail system which can lead to shooters slamming their knuckles into optic base. Upgrades as such moved to increase the size but that can snag on gear so some fold. Yet even in the stock form it’s a knob type.
As a military rifle the operator has to be able to operate the weapon in any conditions that means cold wet in black of night And pull it to open it up even if it’s full of debris like ice or mud. The bigger the grip you can get the more leverage. This design I am not sure about. We haven’t seen any action drills with the rifle to be sure or how it breaks down. However this configuration seems to have been made based purely on it easily sliding down the channel. Possibly as all one piece. Where the SCAR types are separate parts.

1589599259550.png1589599269536.png

Honestly I really do not think this charging handle has a problematic design in terms of shape and size.
I will worry more about the fact that the charging handle is reciprocating on the QBZ191 over its shape and size.

If you accept the fact that the default charging handles on AKs (AKM, AK74s, AK100s, AK12s) are sufficient, then I really do not see the problem with the charging handle on QBZ191. The size and shape between QBZ191 and AK's charging handles are really not that different.

1589600435439.png

The Swiss Arms SG553s are good for cold weather conditions (some versions of them have the trigger guards fold-able to accommodate for thick winter gloves, so you can be pretty sure that the charging handles on these rifles are usable when you have thick winter gloves)

Well, the charging handles on these SG553s only seem marginally bigger than the ones you find on QBZ191 or AKs.

1589600290214.png


I really don't think there is anything wrong with the design of the charging handle, it seems like a pretty solid design tbh.

I believe only the cold weather conditions matter for the shape of the charging handle, since having thick gloves do interfere with using a tiny charging handle like the ones you see on a P90 or Skorpion. Being in muddy or watery conditions really do not interfere that much with the usage of a charging handle, as long as your hand can get onto the charging handle, you can pull it. Furthermore, other mechanisms about the design of the gun will interfere with the operations of the rifle long before the charging handle becomes a problem...

As for SCAR's charging handle, I have never used it so I cannot comment on it too much. But I thought the problem with the SCAR is more about the charging handle being placed too high on the gun that it reciprocates too close to the optics rail which can cut people's fingers. I have never heard of people complaining about SCAR's charging handle being too hard to find or pull.

When's the last time you failed to load the gun because you cannot find and grab the charging handle? I think I can pull the charging handle on QBZ191 easily even if I have I lube up my hands. If you are carrying and caring for your rifle normally, you are not gonna get a huge clump of mud or ice on the side of your gun to block your charging handle, I haven't seen any mud test on Youtube that has resulted in that scenario. The dirt and derbies mostly just fall off when you pick up the gun from the ground. Besides, mud tests are not really valid tests for the durability of a rifle anyways.

As for the night argument, I doubt a soldier that uses his or her weapon often will just suddenly forget the location of the charging handle at night. A rifle will become an extension of your body after some use, in fact, any tool will become an extension of your body if you use it often enough. You are not gonna forget the location of the charging handle of a gun you are holding just because you cannot see it clearly at night. If that is the case, then the problem is not with the design of the charging handle, it is with the solider who uses it. Imagine your soldier says he cannot find his mag pouch on his chest because the mag pouches are not bright or big enough at night, that will be ridiculous.

I can totally see where your worry is coming from, but I think you are over concerned regarding the shape and size of the charging handle.
I really doubt the current version of the charging handle will be a problem for the PLA, after all, the terrible charging handle on Type 95 has not prevented PLA soldiers from operating them smoothly and efficiently. (I think this is also the reason why later versions of the AR changes the location of the charging handle, it is just too awkward to be directly on the top, under the carry handle like QBZ95)

The reliability issue of the new rifle will really not gonna be coming from the shape or size of the charging handle, but from other core systems of the rifle.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I admit it might have just been the images making it look smaller hear. Yes there are a number of rifles with that style but the seem more pronounced in the images.
 

by78

General
also, some higher res pictures of the left and right sides of the carbine variant, including rail sections installed on the 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions.
I think we've had lower quality pictures of one of these before but none so high quality of both sides afaik

View attachment 59907View attachment 59908


This reminds me, I forgot to post a bunch of high-resolution versions of previously shared images. Here they are, with links to their original resolution versions.

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49902313872_d4980a1b33_k.jpg
 

by78

General
Is it an allen key bolt though?
In the highest quality pictures I've seen, the screwhead looks circular rather than the hexagonal shape of an allen key, though I admit even the highest quality pic we have so far is not definitive IMO.

If it is later confirmed to be an allen key then I would agree that the two pieces are likely intended to be separated and changed at probably the armourer level.

They appear to have tried at least two (maybe three) different types of screw designs, but all appear to feature straight edges. So they might be variants of Allen keys the developers have used at various stages of development.

In the first two images, screw heads are rounder, but the top image possibly shows smaller sockets. The third image shows screws with much flatter heads and bigger sockets.

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