075 LHD thread

Bhurki

Junior Member
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For about half a year now, fzgfzy has been saying that the 075 would displace 31,500 tons full, so I think the expectations of 075's size was already shaped around such a ship.

Looking at the ship here, and going by some new recent comments by pop3, it seems like the displacement is being adjusted a bit higher to 36,000 tons full.

Given my expectations were for a 31,500 ton ship, if the ship is 36,000 tons (which seems consistent with the overall size of the ship now that we have pictures of it in the water), that would actually be a pleasant surprise.
The apparent disappointment isn't as much about actual size of the ship but about its comparison with the wasp.
It obviously doesn't measure upto the Wasp's dimensions but that's ok as long as its own operational objectives are met.
Also the largest aircraft operated from 075 and Wasp will differ a lot in size, i think the ratio of their sizes is reflected in the ships that'll house them.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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The apparent disappointment isn't as much about actual size of the ship but about its comparison with the wasp.
It obviously doesn't measure upto the Wasp's dimensions but that's ok as long as its own operational objectives are met.
Also the largest aircraft operated from 075 and Wasp will differ a lot in size, i think the ratio of their sizes is reflected in the ships that'll house them.

I don't really understand the focus on that comparison to be honest.

075 has almost the same waterline beam as the Wasp, with a shorter overall length. In terms of the aircraft it is capable of operating, is there really anyone arguing that 075 wont' be able to operate Ch-53 or V-22 sized aircraft? Is a difference of some 30m in flight deck length the basis of such an argument? I find it unconvincing.
(Not to mention the PLA doesn't have a Ch-53 or V-22 equivalent aircraft to begin with)

Otherwise the only "disappointment" I can comprehend is from people who are focused on bragging rights, because being some 4000+ tons lighter than a Wasp still would make the 075 one of the largest LHD classes in the world and one that is being built serially straight off the bat as well.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I’m a bit disappointed, but realistically speaking, what can be expected?

The 075 doesn’t have to perform the same level of assaults as the Wasp would need to do. Neither does it need to handle fixed wing planes.

It’s role would be as a DDH like the Izumo, and in terms of that, it exceeds expectations.
 

Blitzo

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HD video of the launch.


Very nice. I can't help but wonder if there was any perspective from that side of the river that allowed a full head on view of the drydock but no one was allowed to take pictures or videos there because of the ability to get an axial view down the second hull.
 

Blitzo

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I’m a bit disappointed, but realistically speaking, what can be expected?

The 075 doesn’t have to perform the same level of assaults as the Wasp would need to do. Neither does it need to handle fixed wing planes.

It’s role would be as a DDH like the Izumo, and in terms of that, it exceeds expectations.

... that's not right at all.

The Izumo is a "DDH" yes, but if anything that role of being a "DDH" in its designation and its design/configuration means it has quite a few significant differences from the 075 and Wasp (which are LHD/LHA depending on how one wants to describe it):
  • Izumo has a top speed of ~30 knots that are a result of its COGAG propulsion system. 075 and Wasp can only do 20+ knots.
  • Most importantly -- Izumo does not have a well deck; it can only carry helicopters (or in future, F-35Bs). 075 obviously has a well deck and the ability to deploy forces in an amphibious manner is one of its key roles that Izumo does not have.
The Izumo is also longer than the 075 despite having smaller displacement (likely a result of internal cross section and/or draft of the ships.

So no, 075 is rather different to Izumo in terms of its configuration, considering the other variety of ships that exist in the world that are much more similar to 075 than Izumo is.

If anything, the 075 is very close in overall configuration to the Wasp class, apart from its elevator positions.


Furthermore, there are more than a few LHDs/LHAs/DDHs that are smaller or similar to 075 which are designed to carry VSTOL aircraft:
  • The 27,000 ton Spanish Juan Carlos class LHD (with well deck) carries Harrier jump jets and are intended to be capable of carrying F-35Bs (the Turkish variant of the Juan Carlos class called the Anadolu class was openly described as being intended to carry F-35Bs as well).
  • The aforementioned Izumo class DDH (no welldeck) has been stated to be converted to be capable of carrying F-35Bs as well
  • The 28,000 ton Italian Cavour carrier (no welldeck) carries Harriers and F-35Bs. Italy's new Trieste LHD (with well deck) has a similar displacement (33+ tons) to 075, and it is also intended to be capable of carrying F-35B.
  • The Korean Dokdo class LHD (with well deck) has also been openly stated to be investigated to carry F-35Bs as well.
  • Of course, the UK's old Invincible class carriers of 22,000 tons (no well deck) operated as VSTOL carriers with Harriers and helicopters.

... in other words, there's nothing convincing to me about the design or the size of the 075 that suggests it is somehow unable to field VSTOL jets -- the limitation isn't the ship, but rather that China doesn't have a suitable VSTOL jet to equip it.
Similarly, there's nothing about the 075's size or displacement that suggests it is somehow incapable of carrying large helicopters either. It is probably 30 meters shorter than a Wasp, but that is hardly a limiting factor in being capable of accommodating large helicopters given how big the overall 075 ship is.
Elevator size, hangar height/dimensions and flight deck strength are the key determining factors, and we don't know anything about those.


So what role does the 075 have, and what is the best way to make sense of it?

IMO, the best way to describe 075 would be as a slightly smaller Wasp class (slightly lower displacement and slightly smaller length, but has a similar beam, seemingly similar draft), with a proportionally slightly smaller overall airwing size.
China lacks a VSTOL fighter, therefore obviously the 075 will not have a VSTOL fighter capability (different to the Wasp), and in terms of helicopter capability it will depend on the airwing that the PLAN equips 075 with (likely Z-20, Z-8G/18 and Z-10 variants in future; China won't have a V-22 equivalent in the future), and it has a well deck for LCACs/amphibious assault craft and a likely vehicle/cargo bay as well.


Basically, I don't see any inherent "limiting factors" in the 075's design compared to the Wasp class in terms of the ability to accommodate certain kinds of aircraft or capabilities, given many much smaller ships are capable of accommodating the aircraft that the Wasp class can carry.
The difference will instead likely be in the airwing size that the 075 can accommodate compared to the Wasp -- it might a small fraction lower than what Wasp carry given its smaller displacement/smaller length.
 
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I’m a bit disappointed, but realistically speaking, what can be expected?

The 075 doesn’t have to perform the same level of assaults as the Wasp would need to do. Neither does it need to handle fixed wing planes.

It’s role would be as a DDH like the Izumo, and in terms of that, it exceeds expectations.

I was hoping that it'd be a bit bigger with a ski jump for STOVL UAVs, oh well there's always the next design.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
I was hoping that it'd be a bit bigger with a ski jump for STOVL UAVs, oh well there's always the next design.

They will always have a bigger version, for example type 071, type 052, type 054 and type 055 will all have extended versions. I don't fully understand why they like to do that.
 

Ken

Just Hatched
Registered Member
They will always have a bigger version, for example type 071, type 052, type 054 and type 055 will all have extended versions. I don't fully understand why they like to do that.
I think the capability of ship building keeping increasing is the root cause
 
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