Hong-Kong Protests

[Gatekeeper]

I noticed
Gatekeeper
was a springboard of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

HK 我和我的祖國

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So, I'm the springboard for me and my fatherland! Then it must be official then, I'm a TROLL, and a 5 毛。all because I posted sonething from me and my country! So says Kaiser Jura! The Sinodefence judge, jury and executioner!

 

[supersnoop]

Not sure what you're saying, are you saying these are not real? Its organised by agents outside HK?

That's right. I don't think that specific group is real. While there are certainly enough people in HK that do want to go back to colonialism, that specific campaign looks far too polished to not be the work of professionals. As i mentioned in the post above, the protest movement are not puppets, but it would be silly to think there is no outside influence.

 

[Jura The idiot]

now I read
China strongly opposes U.S. congressional committees' passing of Hong Kong-related act
Xinhua| 2019-09-26 13:59:06

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China on Thursday deplored and strongly opposed the passing of the so-called Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019 by U.S. congressional committees, urging the United States to stop interference in Hong Kong affairs.

The Act confuses right and wrong in total disregard of the facts, brazenly bolsters up violent radicals in Hong Kong and grossly interferes in China's internal affairs, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said in a statement released Thursday morning.

Since the return of Hong Kong to the motherland in 1997, policies including "one country, two systems," "Hong Kong people governing Hong Kong" and a high degree of autonomy have been earnestly carried out, and Hong Kong residents' rights and freedom have been fully guaranteed, Geng said.

But in the past three months, the situation in Hong Kong, initially from the fallout over revisions to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, has gone completely awry as radical forces and violent activists wantonly disturbed public order, destroyed public facilities and assaulted and injured police officers with the support and indulgence of external forces and the anti-China disruptors in Hong Kong.

"All these acts went far beyond normal peaceful demonstrations and assemblies, trampled on social morality, violated the baseline of the rule of law and challenged the bottom line of the 'one country, two systems' principle," said Geng in the statement.

He said it has become a broad consensus for all walks of life in Hong Kong to stop the violence and restore order.

The central government of China firmly supports the government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), the Hong Kong police and the HKSAR judiciary in carrying out their duties in accordance with the law, said the spokesperson.

Geng said the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs persisted in reviewing and approving the Hong Kong-related act in disregard of the appeals of all sectors of Hong Kong society and basic norms of international relations, wantonly backing radical forces and violent activists in Hong Kong.

"Such a move constitutes gross interference in China's internal affairs and fully exposes some U.S. Congress members' vicious intention to send Hong Kong into chaos and contain China's development," he said.

Geng said it is in line with the interests of all parties including the United States that Hong Kong maintains prosperity and stability as there are more than 80,000 U.S. citizens living in Hong Kong together with over 1,300 U.S. companies and considerable U.S. investment.

"The approval of the act by U.S. congressional committees can only embolden radicals and violent activists to further destabilize Hong Kong, which will jeopardize the interests of both China and the United States," Geng said.

He warned that no one should underestimate China's determination to safeguard its national sovereignty, safety and development interests, implement the "one country, two systems" policy and safeguard Hong Kong's prosperity and stability.

"Any U.S. move that undermines China's interests will be met with our vigorous response," Geng said.

China strongly urges some U.S. Congress members to correctly understand the situation, immediately stop pushing the review of the Hong Kong-related act and stop meddling in Hong Kong affairs and interfering in China's internal affairs to avoid further damage to China-U.S. relations, said the spokesperson.

at the end there're links to stories I didn't read:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

BEIJING, Sept. 26 (Xinhua) -- Hong Kong is at a critical moment to reclaim law and order. However, it seems that some U.S. lawmakers are trying to stand in the way.

In an apparent move to fan flames of disorder in Hong Kong, two U.S. congressional committees on Wednesday voted to advance the deeply flawed Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, citing groundless accusations about the "loss of freedom" and "human rights" issue in Hong Kong.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

HONG KONG, Sept. 26 (Xinhua) -- Hong Kong people from various sectors have voiced strong opposition to the passing of the so-called Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019 in U.S. congressional committees.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Gatekeeper]

Reading your factually incorrect and demonizing post shows that at least one ill-wisher upon China and Hong Kong made it here. No idea if you're paid or unpaid for trying to misinform.

There are so many mis-leading statements there, I don't know where to start to unravel the incoherent rant!

What take the biscuits is the end statement accusing us here as pro-commies 5 毛 or trolls!

So according to him anyone that's "pro-democracy and freedom" can not possibly post anything like what we had post, therefore, we must all be 5 毛！

The sad thing is all the stuff we posted wasn't made up by us, it is actually out there created by his "law abiding" peaceful demonstrators. It is not difficult, but he continues to put his head in the sand!

 

[Jura The idiot]

now I read
US bill on Hong Kong sends further chill through city’s economy, stokes fears of American exodus

• Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act is unlikely to have major immediate effect, but could further damage confidence in the city as a business hub
• However, analysts warn that the ‘US business community in Hong Kong have had a glimpse of the future and they did not like what they saw’

Updated: 11:55pm, 26 Sep, 2019

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As legislation designed to pressure China to guarantee Hong Kong’s autonomy moved closer to being passed in the United States, analysts have warned that it could crack open a “Pandora’s box” to a broad range of punishment measures against officials in both the city and the mainland.

The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

of 2019 opens the door for sanctions on individuals deemed responsible for “undermining basic freedoms in Hong Kong”. It also floats the possibility of export controls, which would restrict the flow of sensitive technology into Hong Kong out of fear that it could be leaked to China.
However, the act does not specifically mention the special customs regime Hong Kong currently enjoys, which allows the city to negotiate its own trade and investment agreements with the US, independently from

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This status means Hong Kong is not subject to US tariffs on Chinese imports.

The consensus among analysts was that there would need to be a massive and sustained Chinese intervention in Hong Kong for the US to adjust the trading status, given the far-reaching consequences it would have on both Hong Kong and the US.

“That step still feels like it would be a long way off, unless there is some sort of bloody crackdown on the protest movement in the territory,” said Duncan Innes-Ker, research director for Asia at the Economist Intelligence Unit, who added that the act could strengthen US President Donald Trump’s ability to use the Hong Kong situation to punish China, should it escalate.

The American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong is internally discussing its position on the act, the South China Morning Post has learned.

A senior source at the World Customs Organisation said that Hong Kong’s special status had not been a topic of conversation among officials yet, but voiced concerns that “interference from the central government will only grow stronger in the long term” and that “we may see the end” of Hong Kong as an international business hub in the years to come.

However, the biggest immediate fear is that the act will place another dent in business confidence in the city, which is already teetering on the brink of recession and suffering declines in key industries, as the anti-government protests threaten to bring the economy to its knees.

“By and large, the US business community in Hong Kong have had a glimpse of the future and they did not like what they saw going forward,” said Fred Rocafort, a trade and customs lawyer at Harris Bricken and a former US consular official in China.

“Is the decoupling that is happening with regards to China going to start happening with Hong Kong as well? It will – the question for me is just how quickly that will happen.”

Hong Kong Trade Development Council research director Nicholas Kwan Ka-ming said any changes to trade policy would create uncertainty for investors and traders in the city.

“What will the next policy be? Will the move trigger other jurisdictions to change their trade policy to Hong Kong?” he asked. “The biggest issue Hong Kong faces is the uncertainty arising from these issues.”

Kwan added that any changes could have a far flung impact on US-Hong Kong bilateral investments, innovation and technology transfers, and even cultural exchanges.

The US government already reserves the right to adjust Hong Kong’s status through an annual review of human rights conducted as part of the Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992.

Therefore, the new bill could be viewed symbolically as “a very concrete expression of a new feeling that there is in Washington towards China”, Rocafort said, pointing to “the dramatic shift” in how China is perceived in the US.

A former senior White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested that the existence of the 1992 act means the new bill is unlikely to have a major immediate impact on US-Hong Kong relations, since both pieces of legislation cover similar territory.

The former diplomat added that Hong Kong protesters’ hopes that the US would intervene beyond the new act – including militarily – are “profoundly naive”.

However, there are certain provisions that are already causing anxiety for businesspeople in Hong Kong.

Sally Peng, a Hong Kong-based trade lawyer with US firm Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg, said clients have been phoning with concerns over the possible use of export controls, a mechanism which outlaws the flow of certain goods to sanctioned countries like Iran and North Korea, and to sanctioned companies including Chinese telecommunications manufacturer Huawei.

US lawmakers have called on the Trump administration to assess whether sensitive US equipment and technologies could be leaked to mainland China via Hong Kong, with the new act seeking to codify that in an annual review.

“The business community cannot even fathom the possibility of export controls in Hong Kong,” Peng said. “They would have to move everything out, they do not know what they would do – divert to Singapore?

“Hong Kong is a trade hub, we do not manufacture anything, but make money on the margins of transshipment through logistics and financing. Export controls would have a big effect.”

Analysts also point to the sanctions provision in the draft bill, which states: “The President shall report to Congress a list of individuals responsible for abducting and torturing people for exercising internationally recognised human rights in Hong Kong. The bill bars such individuals from entering the United States and imposes sanctions on them.”

A series of experts said that it is difficult to predict how and when such sanctions would be used, especially given the “whim the Trump administration has shown” when unleashing

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and other countries, even erstwhile allies such as the European Union, Canada and Mexico.

Sanctions could, however, cause severe disruption to a city which bills itself as a financial powerhouse.

“If a person is sanctioned by the US, then banks will need to cut off ties with the person due to the power of secondary sanctions by the US. These banks could lose the US dollar access unless they decide not to engage in international businesses, which is very difficult in Hong Kong,” said Alicia Garcia-Herrero, chief Asia-Pacific economist at Natixis.

 

[Jura The idiot]

now I read
US meddling in Hong Kong to backfire
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/9/26 23:18:40

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The US House Foreign Affairs Committee and Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday passed the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019. The act still needs approval from the US Congress and president to become law.

Congress has been aggressively meddling in Hong Kong affairs.

The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act requires the US government to sanction Chinese officials deemed responsible for "undermining democracy and autonomy in Hong Kong." It also asks the US to review Hong Kong's status as a separate customs area granted by the US once in a year.

On the same day, the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved the Taiwan Allies International Protection and Enhancement Initiative Act, or TAIPEI Act, which requires the US government to support Taiwan's diplomatic recognition.

The moves clearly show the narrow-mindedness and arrogance of some forces within the US Congress. They are fond of China xenophobia, but they have no idea about the actual role of the legislation they are promoting.

These bills are inducing a few extremists and jeopardizing the interests of the majority.

Hong Kong enjoys a high degree of autonomy under the Basic Law. The level of freedom Hong Kong society enjoys is much higher than in Western countries such as the US and the UK. Some people in Hong Kong have been politically stubborn and that has led to the current social unrest.

The US House and Senate committees are not supporting democracy and rule of law in Hong Kong, but violence that imperils the city order at a time when Hong Kong society is engaged in ending violence and restoring order.

This is blatant interference in China's domestic affairs. The Basic Law states clearly the meaning of Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy and only the standing committee of the National People's Congress has the authority to interpret it.

Some US congressmen have tried to grab this authority and increase the clout of pro-US forces in Hong Kong society. They also seek to replace Beijing's rule over Hong Kong with Washington's manipulation of the special administrative region.

We have to say those congressmen have overestimated US influence in Hong Kong, a special administrative region of China. China's sovereignty over the city and the country's powerful strength to safeguard the sovereignty cannot be overturned. The US is not really determined to challenge China's sovereignty over Hong Kong, and the so-called human rights and democracy act is only a farce that is not qualified to confront the Basic Law.

The majority of Hongkongers wish to recover order in Hong Kong. The city needs to keep highly autonomous on the one hand and enjoy autonomy under the one-China principle on the other. We believe most Hongkongers clearly know that Hong Kong must not be a place where the US can do whatever it wants. If the US Congress goes too far intervening in Hong Kong affairs, it is bound to fail as Hong Kong society won't be swayed in this way.

US congressmen should not regard themselves as judges of global justice. They should be aware of their political selfishness and understand that what they have been advocating is not universal. Many societies have suffered losses after following these people's instructions.

The TAIPEI Act shows some US congressmen are desperate when pro-independence forces in Taiwan are on the decline. The US has already broken "diplomatic ties" with Taiwan and so have US allies. But Washington is now trying to stop the small countries, which urgently need to integrate with globalization, from breaking "diplomatic ties" with Taiwan and turning to the People's Republic of China. If Washington performs such a publicity stunt, it would be a tragedy for the US.

 

[Gatekeeper]

That's right. I don't think that specific group is real. While there are certainly enough people in HK that do want to go back to colonialism, that specific campaign looks far too polished to not be the work of professionals. As i mentioned in the post above, the protest movement are not puppets, but it would be silly to think there is no outside influence.

I think we might be too naive to think that, don't forget the rioters have outside support all along, both financialy and politicaly.

They are not as leaderless as we are led to believe. Look at the clandestine meeting with the USA consulate general, then the arrangement to travel to Taiwan, Germany and the USA. these things cost money. Hell I have a relatively well paid job, yet I can't afford travel round the world like that. And he is just a student!

And least we forget the NED, they are on records to say their goals are to help and support democracy anywhere in the world. "That us what we do"! It is their reason for existence!

And lastly, even if you discount the "posters". How do you explain the facts real people with real flags singing real USA/UK national athems. And standing outside UK consulate general demanding UK to make them British!

 

[Gatekeeper]

While what you say is true about the reaction of potential targets to the threat of sanction that is actually impossible to verify either way by the public thereby setting the situation up for fake news to sow mistrust and conflict in the target country along the lines of your train of thought. The bill is also meant to set the US up for claiming credit even if undeserved if the situation is de-escalated.

The bill also creates both the appearance of interference and jurisdiction as well as potential actual interference and jurisdiction over the domestic affairs of another sovereign country, therefore such PR and lawfare aggression against another country's sovereignty requires a nuanced multifaceted response. Just as the aggression of military "freedom of navigation" incorporates insult and injury in one move requires a nuanced multifaceted response.

The bill is nothing more than a PR exercise to demonised China, and for home consumption. It does nothing to the situation.

I mean, come on, if USA is seriously concerned about democracy and human rights, then it should start with their biggest customers and allies! They area shining example of democracy and a beacon for human rights! Right?

 

[PanAsian]

Both sides are stupid. After months of observation. All I see is that this protest is a nothing but a huge deception that shifts the focus of the general populace from around the world from the real conflicts and struggles in the world. The only victims are Hong Kong residents, but even for them, the damages are nothing unbearable. The reasons are simple:

1. The Hong Kong government is not backing off.
2. HK Law enforcement are functioning fine. They can handle the situation without PAP intervening.
3. The majority of powerful HK law makers are still neutral or Pro-Beijing/Pro-stability.

Because of the above 3 point, the situation in Hong Kong does not strategically benefit or damage any sides (China, or the West), in any meaningful sense. As long as the above 3 points hold (I don't see how it can not hold), the whole thing is a waste of time. In terms of propaganda, it also give materials to both side:

On China's side, they have more than enough media materials on these silly protester, to use as fuel for strengthening nationalism in mainland.

On the side of the West, they also has more than enough media material on the protests, to use as fuel for Western Values and anti-authoritarianism (anti-China) fuel.

Realistically speaking, as long as things goes on like it is, it's going nowhere. I don't see any chinks-in-the-armor on HK government's side. And I also don't see any creative change in strategy on the protester's side. Once such protests/riots become a new norm, it will become insignificant to geopolitics.

I have said again and again, the protesters are pathetic, because they don't have a strategic vision. I myself is a proud and nationalistic Chinese. But since I partly grew up in the West, I am chill with both sides. And after months of these stagnant protests, I find it harder and harder to suppress my itch of wanting to play the devil's advocate and put myself in the protest/riot organizer's shoes. Perhaps also partly because I am a Daoist, and I believe in Chaos as an agents that drives evolution/improvements and strengths. This is why I want China to take as much challenge and hardship as it can handle, because they will improve and strengthen China.

I have posted similar post before, and my devil's suggestions have not changed:

1. Stop targeting HK government and public services. If serious damages to public services are inflicted, to the point of damaging regular HKers' daily life and work, they will lose support of the general populace. Instead, grow a pair and target PLA Hong Kong garrison installations.

2. Stop putting stupid banners asking US and UK to take-over, these are idiotic because even the most hawkish and delusional military planners in the US and UK will NOT entertain the idea of invading/retaking HK. Because it holds no militarily strategic value in itself. (Taking HK will drag them into a full nuclear war with China, which means that they might as well declare war with China. And if they decide to fight China, they would not waste their assets invading HK, since there are much much more militarily valuable locations they need to focus their forces on.) AND, it also does nothing but become perfect propaganda material for nationalistic propaganda in the Mainland. Instead of trashing downtown streets in the HK, and internalize that conflict. They should instead form a mass protest/march towards the HK/Shenzhen border. They should put-up banners like "Freeing all of China" and clash with PAP border troops. I bet the West would love to see this.

Of course, I don't think the protester are smart enough, nor have the correct strategic vision to implement these.

Your assumption takes the rioters and their co-consiprators at their word that they are fighting for "freedom and democracy". Perhaps you are not smart enough to see through their propaganda to their actual goals and plans which have nothing to do with freedom and democracy.

 

[Gatekeeper]

At the risk of being accused of being a 5 毛， here I am earning another 5 毛！

The school is being slapped in the face, because she dared to disagree with the "freedom loving democracy loving" cohorts!

Yeap. It might ir might not be representative of the "freedom loving" demonstrators. But it is the reality on the ground, and no one made this up!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!