Iranian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Feel free to email the European Commission at
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. I'm sure they could explain.

The EU sanctions don't ban Iran from trading with anyone. They restrict oil shipments to a specific refinery in Syria.

So if the SCO set up a site saying ‘we have the right to stop 3rd party ships from going to x country/y port’, you will just say ‘good enough for me’? :rolleyes:

Isn’t it funny how no other EU navy has seen fit to try and intercept foreign ships for trading with Syria?

There has never been a full accounting of just how and why British Royal Marines came to board that Iranian tanker in the first place, and ‘EU sanctions’ just doesn’t pass the most basic smell test.

This whole sorry affair is pretty much standard MO for western nations. When one of their own and/or affiliate cat pawns does something highly provocative if not outright illegal, they stay quiet, but when the wronged party response, they all gang up and denounce the response without any mention of the initial triggering incident as if it never happened.

In this case, two wrongs don’t make a right, but it is just pure BS to only call out Iran’s response without giving equal scrutiny about the UK’s initial triggering action.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
So if the SCO set up a site saying ‘we have the right to stop 3rd party ships from going to x country/y port’, you will just say ‘good enough for me’?

Obviously not, because the SCO hasn't pooled sovereignty so that it can bind member states to enforce sanctions. Call me when it gets to that stage. If it evolved into an organisation like the EU, that would be an interesting scenario if it tried to enforce its own sanctions.

Isn’t it funny how no other EU navy has seen fit to try and intercept foreign ships for trading with Syria?

Probably because Iranian ships haven't been going through their waters to get to Syria. If the Iranian tanker had gone via the Suez Canal, this wouldn't have been an issue.

There has never been a full accounting of just how and why British Royal Marines came to board that Iranian tanker in the first place

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Marines from 42 Commando were involved in the overnight seizure, with some landing on the ship’s deck by rapidly descending down ropes suspended from a Wildcat helicopter, and the rest following up via speedboat.

...But the Foreign Office reasoned that it had a legal and moral duty to impound any ship that was heading to Syria in breach of EU sanctions. It was the Iranian’s surprise decision to enter Gibraltarian waters with its communications transponders on that left the UK with the option to impound the vessel.

I'm not sure what other sort of account you were expecting.

‘EU sanctions’ just doesn’t pass the most basic smell test

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"More broadly, sanctions currently in place against Syria include an oil embargo...."

When one of their own and/or affiliate cat pawns does something highly provocative if not outright illegal, they stay quiet, but when the wronged party response, they all gang up and denounce the response without any mention of the initial triggering incident as if it never happened.

If the British-flagged ship had undeniably been in non-disputed Iranian waters, it might have been somewhat understandable the Iranians would go after it. But the tracking information suggests it was in Omanese waters. This is the biggest point. Not just that Iran decided to mix things up by picking on a ship that wasn't subject to sanctions imposed by anyone, but going into someone else's territory to do it.

In this case, two wrongs don’t make a right, but it is just pure BS to only call out Iran’s response without giving equal scrutiny about the UK’s initial triggering action.

Pro-Iranian forum poster asks "but what can Iran do to de-escalate". I give potential option. Results in outrage as if I had suggested Khamenei should take part in a gay pride march.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Feel free to email the European Commission at
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. I'm sure they could explain.



The EU sanctions don't ban Iran from trading with anyone. They restrict oil shipments to a specific refinery in Syria.



Why, because some guy in a bar told you Switzerland is neutral? Switzerland is a fairly democratic country, but it's not the most democratic country in Europe by any organisation's assessments, nor the only democratic country.



One ship, no. Targetting every ship from/going to a country or flagged by a country, as you suggested, for no reason other than you're throwing a tantrum would be an act of war.

You can't explain it; the EU commission can't explain it; nobody can explain it because it's just piracy, insisting others follow your rules even though you have no legal power over them. And then insult, asking them to take your misdeeds to your courts.

It doesn't matter if it's trade with a country or trade with a company, etc... the UK doesn't have any power to limit Iranian business or travel with any other country.

Once again, one ship, two ships, 10 ships; it doesn't matter. Crime is determined by principle, not frequency. If seizure of ships is an act of war, then 1 is an act of war. If it's not, then no amount is. And this is obviously your personal spin as you're basically saying, "You murder 1 person and it's ok, but if you start murdering a lot of people, you will go to jail." This nonsense is your floundering attempt to justify why the UK cannot act against Iran if what it's doing is so wrong. Everybody knows the UK started this and it's going to have to find a way out.

Reread #255. You added some stuff to your initial post so I edited stuff into my response. I don't want you to miss it.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Obviously not, because the SCO hasn't pooled sovereignty so that it can bind member states to enforce sanctions. Call me when it gets to that stage. If it evolved into an organisation like the EU, that would be an interesting scenario if it tried to enforce its own sanctions.

When did Iran become a fully signed up member of the EU?

It’s not a difficult concept and I am struggling to see how it can be so hard for you to grasp.

EU sanctions can only apply to EU member states who have themselves signed up to be legally bound by the EU.

Whether the EU or SCO has the power to sanction its member states is entirely immaterial to outside 3rd parties who never agreed to be so bound by any decisions the EU or SCO might make.

The only organisation that could impose sanctions on other nation states is the UN, and only because all nations have signed up to recognise and accept the UN’s authority to do so.

Probably because Iranian ships haven't been going through their waters to get to Syria. If the Iranian tanker had gone via the Suez Canal, this wouldn't have been an issue.

So much for freedom of navigating. Maybe the Russian and Chinese navies should conduct their own FONOPS around EU waters to re-enforce the rights of international shipping?

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Marines from 42 Commando were involved in the overnight seizure, with some landing on the ship’s deck by rapidly descending down ropes suspended from a Wildcat helicopter, and the rest following up via speedboat.

...But the Foreign Office reasoned that it had a legal and moral duty to impound any ship that was heading to Syria in breach of EU sanctions. It was the Iranian’s surprise decision to enter Gibraltarian waters with its communications transponders on that left the UK with the option to impound the vessel.

I'm not sure what other sort of account you were expecting.

Oh, silly me, there was me thinking an actual legal examination of the actual merits of the legal case rather than just toeing the party line of ‘because some government spokesperson said it was legal so it is legal’.

More than that, an in-depth accounting of precisely who green lighted this op in the first place. More on that later.

If the British-flagged ship had undeniably been in non-disputed Iranian waters, it might have been somewhat understandable the Iranians would go after it. But the tracking information suggests it was in Omanese waters. This is the biggest point. Not just that Iran decided to mix things up by picking on a ship that wasn't subject to sanctions imposed by anyone, but going into someone else's territory to do it.

All of that is conditional on anyone accepting the legality and legitimacy of the British action to enforce EU sanctions on a non-EU ship.

As far as the Iranians are concerned, the British started this by seizing one of their ships legally going about its own business. So it seized a British ship in return.

As far as I am concerned, both sides are in the wrong, the British doubly so for starting all this nonsense for no good reason in the first place.

And behind closed doors, I bet the EU are furious with the British for this wholly unnecessarily BS nonsense at the exact time the EU is desperately trying to save the nuclear agreement.

And I highly suspect that is what all these is all about - the UK military, intelligence and diplomatic corps have long held a near treasonous obsession with brown nosing the Americans, often to the detriment of the UK’s own national self interest.

On the very eve of the departure of the current lame duck PM and before the new one even takes over, this incident’a timing is exceptionally suspicious, as it seems perfectly timed to define the new regime’s position on Iran before the new PM has any chance to have any input into the decision.

The UK’s move puts the EU in an incredibly difficult bind, as it is forced to support the British initial action no matter how much they may privately object to it; thereby souring their relations with Iran and fundamentally undermining their efforts to save the nuclear accord.
 

Brumby

Major
You can't explain it; the EU commission can't explain it; nobody can explain it because it's just piracy, insisting others follow your rules even though you have no legal power over them. And then insult, asking them to take your misdeeds to your courts.

It doesn't matter if it's trade with a country or trade with a company, etc... the UK doesn't have any power to limit Iranian business or travel with any other country.

The UK absolutely have jurisdictional authority to impound the Iranian vessel because it was conducted within British territorial waters. The basic legal principle is every country has the legal authority to conduct its own legal affairs within its own jurisdiction. It is a sovereign right of very nation to conduct its own affairs within its own borders. Similarly, Iran has the right to export oil to Syria but just don't transit it through the territorial waters of another nation that has imposed sanctions on such activities.

In contrast, the British tanker as Mr T said was seized in international waters and not in Iranian waters. As such, Iran has no jurisdictional authority to conduct such an act and is in breach of international laws. If the British had seized the Iranian tanker in international waters then the British would similarly be acting illegally. It is the reason why the British waited for the Iranian vessel to enter its territorial waters before conducting the seizure. There are international rules. .
 

Brumby

Major
It is 'impossible' for the UK to defend every ship from Iran, the Royal Navy is 'too small' and admirals need more cash, says defence minister Tobias Ellwood amid Iran crisis

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A top defence minister warned it was 'impossible' for the UK to protect every ship from Iranian forces in the Gulf today as he demanded more money for the Royal Navy.

Tobias Ellwood denied that the UK had taken its 'eye off the ball' and said the Government was looking at a 'series of options' after Iranian forces seized a UK-flagged tanker.

The Stena Impero oil tanker carrying 23 crew was stormed by Iranian Special Forces, on Friday, sparking an international crisis.

After the RN being subject to decades of neglect and politicians spinning that all is well, the "chickens have come home to roost"
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
The UK absolutely have jurisdictional authority to impound the Iranian vessel because it was conducted within British territorial waters. The basic legal principle is every country has the legal authority to conduct its own legal affairs within its own jurisdiction. It is a sovereign right of very nation to conduct its own affairs within its own borders. Similarly, Iran has the right to export oil to Syria but just don't transit it through the territorial waters of another nation that has imposed sanctions on such activities.

In contrast, the British tanker as Mr T said was seized in international waters and not in Iranian waters. As such, Iran has no jurisdictional authority to conduct such an act and is in breach of international laws. If the British had seized the Iranian tanker in international waters then the British would similarly be acting illegally. It is the reason why the British waited for the Iranian vessel to enter its territorial waters before conducting the seizure. There are international rules. .

No no no. First of all the Strait of Gibraltar falls under "transit passage" by UNCLOS because the strait is important to international trade but too narrow to afford everyone their 12 miles limits.

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"This navigation rule took on more importance with UNCLOS III as that convention confirmed the widening of
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from three to twelve nautical miles, causing more straits not to have a navigation passage between the territorial waters of the coastal nations.
Transit passage exists throughout the entire strait, not just the area overlapped by the territorial waters of the coastal nations. The ships and aircraft of all nations, including warships, auxiliaries, and military aircraft, enjoy the right of unimpeded transit passage in such straits and their approaches. Submarines are free to transit international straits submerged since that is their normal mode of operation. Transit passage rights do not extend to any state's
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within a strait.

The legal regime of transit passage exists for all straits used for international navigation where there is not a simple alternative route, and where there is no long-standing international convention governing the straits such as for the
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, the
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, and the
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. The major international trade routes of the
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,
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,
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,
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and
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are covered by the transit passage provisions."


Secondly, even if it is not under transit passage, that is not how you treat a ship that has entered your 12 mile limit. You warn them that they are in your territorial waters and they must turn around. If they fail to do so after several warnings, you are free to do what you need. You don't just let them come in like everything's cool and suddenly drop marines over their deck to and seize it for coming within 12 miles; that's not how things work.

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Let's remember how the US Navy illegally boarded a Chinese ship in international waters in the 90s because the US had a tip that China was shipping chemical weapons to Iran. All they found were farming tools. Did the US get in trouble or get charged with anything by any international institution for violating international law? Did any of the countries that claim they believe in the rule of law speak up against this action. No. So there is a precedent to board and seize vessels when in international waters.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
The UK absolutely have jurisdictional authority to impound the Iranian vessel because it was conducted within British territorial waters. The basic legal principle is every country has the legal authority to conduct its own legal affairs within its own jurisdiction. It is a sovereign right of very nation to conduct its own affairs within its own borders. Similarly, Iran has the right to export oil to Syria but just don't transit it through the territorial waters of another nation that has imposed sanctions on such activities.

In contrast, the British tanker as Mr T said was seized in international waters and not in Iranian waters. As such, Iran has no jurisdictional authority to conduct such an act and is in breach of international laws. If the British had seized the Iranian tanker in international waters then the British would similarly be acting illegally. It is the reason why the British waited for the Iranian vessel to enter its territorial waters before conducting the seizure. There are international rules. .

are you ok? have you read what the definitions you are talking about and do you know what Gibraltar fall into what category? read first matey
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
What happens during war? Do these rules get thrown out? What sets the guidelines for naval battles in international waters and usage of these special waterways?
 
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