To address its own and country biggest weakness, Huawei must advance its chip manufacturing.

[CMP]

The United States will not lose Super Power Status, it will just be surpassed by China as a Super Power. Obviously the United States absolutely does not want that to happen. Because with another Super Power which does not adhere to a highly flawed and completely discredited economic ideology and one which is technologically

They might lose it if they blow another 2008 or worse.

 

[Xizor]

actually Trump recognize china as rival, all his speech, policy shows that. the indo-pacific, the state union speech, and others policies/speech. many trump advisor are far right but recognize they need to go something about china before china get too strong.

No. Trump sees China as a Thief. Trump just wants an equal trade with balanced deficit. That is not the case for the Trump administration. They see a Cold War. The trump policy is crafted by them. Trade deficit is only one of the many "issues" US have with China.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

not everything throwing $$$ gonna work, these thing need clear planning, talents, resource and time. Yes US company want to sell it, but it can't that just the reality. i know china try to get good semi since 2000s, but it didn't success as they want to be. maybe now they are even more motivate, but they still need good plan and get talents.

They previous attempt was half hearted, unfocus and there is no urgency since Chinese semiconductor market was small then . The technical and industrial level still low No dedicated research in semiconductor.China was poor in 2000's cannot afford the hundred of billion dollar to built those semi FAB. NO urgency since they can source it out

Now it is change China has all the part in place now Big market for semiconductor The industrial base and technical level improved immensely. But most importantly they have money and urgency to be self sufficient.
So this time around the precondition for success is all there

 

[Xizor]

I think its time to open a thread for following China's progress and struggles in electronics and semiconductors ,towards achieving the MADE IN CHINA 2025 plan. It must not be limited to Huawei.

 

[tower9]

The United States will not lose Super Power Status, it will just be surpassed by China as a Super Power. Obviously the United States absolutely does not want that to happen. Because with another Super Power which does not adhere to a highly flawed and completely discredited economic ideology and one which is technologically

Becoming No. 2 is not acceptable to the American psyche. The US has been dominant for a very long time. Five generations of Americans have grown up with the notion that the US is the best and most powerful country.

Does China think it can really just cruise into No. 1 status without a fight? Yes, and you better believe that the US is willing to get hurt to prevent China from taking its spot.

Really, what should be surprising is that it took so long for a Trump to get into office and pull these antics. The prior American presidents were sleeping on the job. The real question now is, what is China going to do about it? The cooperative relationship coming from the US is over, now the US is focused on making sure China never takes its place. What is China going to do about it? I guess we will see.

 

[tower9]

If Trump's action does not spur the Chinese state to ensure that Chinese entities within and outside of the state possess the full capability of producing high tech products and the equipment to make high tech products in all categories from microprocessor semiconductors to single crystal aerojet turbine blades then what will?

China should accelerate its efforts. It does not matter whether other countries will object to it, because China must realize that they are probably ALL susceptible to US pressure to restrict sales of such tech to China, even at the cost of their own companies and themselves.

I would be extremely surprised if China is able to reproduce the complete supply chain for these banned components within two years. I would be EXTREMELY surprised. These are very established companies that supply these components and there is a massive number of different components that need to be supplied, in addition to producing the equipment, operating systems, manufacturing practices that go into them.

This move against Huawei is no less than a declaration of war. If China does not mobilize it's entire society to reproduce these supply chains and protect its companies, then it does not deserve to compete.

 

[tower9]

@manqiangrexue, the US is perfectly free to not sell its products to China or Huawei if it wants to. But they have gone way beyond that. Strong arming other countries not to buy Huawei's products, when that failed (even their lapdog the UK balked at it), they now threaten any suppliers of Huawei who also deal with the US market (not just US companies) that they will be sanctioned too.

They are leveraging their market power to kill Huawei. If this was economics you would see what it is. It is an abuse of monopoly power or a dominant market power.
This is playing dirty no two ways about it. Huawei was chosen not for any security concerns or any hogwash like that, it was simply because it is a Chinese tech champion.

I said this before but Trump, when he was a real estate developer in New York, surrounded himself with gangsters. His construction projects were one of the few where workers never went on a labor strike because of that. He's got a mobster mentality. All his talk about wanting a fair deal is hogwash. If he wanted that he could have renegotiated the import-export tariffs first on a fair basis. But, like I said, he has a mobster mentality. So, just like any mobster, his idea of a negotiation is you enter on someone's establishment, break some things with a crowbar, and then impose your conditions. This is something straight out of the Sopranos or the Godfather.

The fact they directly went for the Huawei founder's daughter is also something straight out of a mobster's playbook. You would think there are other ways to do a lawsuit.

Yep. All this is true. Trump is a symptom though of the US coming to terms that it's influence is declining. Trump is the embodiment of the US lashing out in anger at those they believe are surpassing it.

China should stop believing that they can compromise or come to a deal with the US. They need to realize that China is now public enemy No. 1 and the US will do whatever it can to knee cap China in every way, shape or form. Now, what's China going to do about it? So far, the responses have been pretty wimpy. It seems like China's only good at bullying smaller countries but it acts like a wimp in front of the strongest country, the US. Look at how it's dealt with the kidnapping of Meng, it's just been lashing out at Canada while still playing nice with the US. China is pretty cowardly actually. Russia wouldn't be acting this way. Russia actually has balls.

 

[Gatekeeper]

@manqiangrexue, the US is perfectly free to not sell its products to China or Huawei if it wants to. But they have gone way beyond that. Strong arming other countries not to buy Huawei's products, when that failed (even their lapdog the UK balked at it), they now threaten any suppliers of Huawei who also deal with the US market (not just US companies) that they will be sanctioned too.

They are leveraging their market power to kill Huawei. If this was economics you would see what it is. It is an abuse of monopoly power or a dominant market power.
This is playing dirty no two ways about it. Huawei was chosen not for any security concerns or any hogwash like that, it was simply because it is a Chinese tech champion.

I said this before but Trump, when he was a real estate developer in New York, surrounded himself with gangsters. His construction projects were one of the few where workers never went on a labor strike because of that. He's got a mobster mentality. All his talk about wanting a fair deal is hogwash. If he wanted that he could have renegotiated the import-export tariffs first on a fair basis. But, like I said, he has a mobster mentality. So, just like any mobster, his idea of a negotiation is you enter on someone's establishment, break some things with a crowbar, and then impose your conditions. This is something straight out of the Sopranos or the Godfather.

The fact they directly went for the Huawei founder's daughter is also something straight out of a mobster's playbook. You would think there are other ways to do a lawsuit.

Absolutely, this was my point on the trade war thread.

The thread got closed down because it was getting too "political". But there bound to be some element of politics in play, you just can't avoide it.

The very act of tariffs is political, On CNN, today, Bouldane said as much. Maybe she didn't get that message.

Anyway, US has a soverign right to choose whom to sell or buy from. But it doesn't have the right to stop other countries from doing so!

Not only that, it then go on the world stage with their media campagne accusing China of foul play is dispicable.

Is not as if the US never did any stealing of tech, espionage, etc. Please.

It even accursed China of currency manipulation, as if its a bad thing, and as if no other countries in the world have the right to manage their own currency. Since when this has been a crime?

Finally, regarding the CFO of Huawai, I think less said the better, or we will get this thread close down as well!

 

[manqiangrexue]

@manqiangrexue, the US is perfectly free to not sell its products to China or Huawei if it wants to. But they have gone way beyond that. Strong arming other countries not to buy Huawei's products, when that failed (even their lapdog the UK balked at it), they now threaten any suppliers of Huawei who also deal with the US market (not just US companies) that they will be sanctioned too.

They are leveraging their market power to kill Huawei. If this was economics you would see what it is. It is an abuse of monopoly power or a dominant market power.
This is playing dirty no two ways about it. Huawei was chosen not for any security concerns or any hogwash like that, it was simply because it is a Chinese tech champion.

I said this before but Trump, when he was a real estate developer in New York, surrounded himself with gangsters. His construction projects were one of the few where workers never went on a labor strike because of that. He's got a mobster mentality. All his talk about wanting a fair deal is hogwash. If he wanted that he could have renegotiated the import-export tariffs first on a fair basis. But, like I said, he has a mobster mentality. So, just like any mobster, his idea of a negotiation is you enter on someone's establishment, break some things with a crowbar, and then impose your conditions. This is something straight out of the Sopranos or the Godfather.

The fact they directly went for the Huawei founder's daughter is also something straight out of a mobster's playbook. You would think there are other ways to do a lawsuit.

Of course I agree. I prefaced with saying that although the US has done many horrible things, the actual act of refusing to sell technology to a rival is not one of them. I have written all along that China needs to find a way to defeat the US, not to grow with it because that is a fool's errand.

The main point of my last few posts is certainly not that the US has done nothing wrong, but that one definitely cannot blame the Chinese government or hold them responsible for the US refusing to sell more components to ZTE (until reparations were made) because ZTE had violated a contract. The Chinese government did more than their fair share to help out in that case.

 

[tower9]

Of course I agree. I prefaced with saying that although the US has done many horrible things, the actual act of refusing to sell technology to a rival is not one of them. I have written all along that China needs to find a way to defeat the US, not to grow with it because that is a fool's errand.

The main point of my last few posts is certainly not that the US has done nothing wrong, but that one definitely cannot blame the Chinese government or hold them responsible for the US refusing to sell more components to ZTE (until reparations were made) because ZTE had violated a contract. The Chinese government did more than their fair share to help out in that case.

Honestly if you look at things from a nationalist point of view, the US doesn't have any incentive to cooperate with China. One can argue that American relations with China over the past four decades ever since it was normalized has largely only benefited China and not the US. Let's look at the facts, millions of Chinese were educated in top notch US universities, millions of Chinese have learned modern corporate practices working in US companies, living in the US, China has learned rapidly from US technology, access to the US market, foreign investment, US practices, etc.

What has the US gained? Other than improving the bottom line of some US corporations and cheap products for the US consumer, really not much of anything. I guess that was enough for prior administrations which were controlled by corporate America, they were only beholden to their bottom line and quarterly report, but US-China relations has largely been a disaster for the US strategically. The US has actually suffered greatly in that it's relative strength to China has declined significantly.

It's illogical for the US to continue subsidizing a rival state that is independent, beyond its control and able to subvert American power. It's actually not just illogical, it is suicide, but that's exactly what the US has been doing for at least the last two decades ever since China started to emerge as a serious competitor.

So my point is that what Trump is currently doing is not nice, he's being a complete asshole, but guess what? It's actually the most logical thing that a US president has done in a long long time. What is NOT logical is for the US to continue to cooperate with China like it is a partner. The US has largely only lost in its relationship with China, while China has gained tremendously. Four decades ago, the US was on top of the world, it was a mega power economically, financially and with the USSR only a poor rival militarily. China was a peasant economy. Think about it.

So if China wants to get to the top, it needs to accept that the US has woken up and will stop subsidizing a rival state. China's going to have to fight and claw for that No. 1 position if it wants it. So far, I only see China begging the US to "treat it fairly", and trying to smile through its teeth convincing the US that it isn't a threat. Pretty cowardly, passive aggressive behavior IMO. China is only good at being tough with weak countries like Canada, South Korea, Vietnam, etc. It is behavior that's really contemptuous if you think about it.

Will see what happens from here. But I can guarantee you, it will only get worse from here.