J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Blitzo]

Did it take him less than two years to learn how to fly J-20? Back in mid. 2017, he only knew how to fly J-16 and J-10C

Are you saying two years is long or short?

I also don't recall, in 2017 did we get him specifically saying he was not yet able to fly J-20s?

For all we know he could've been training to fly J-20s at the time, or maybe he took even less than two years to learn to pilot J-20, not to mention we don't know his operational "level" compared to other pilots currently.

In other words we know nothing about how long it took him to train to fly J-20s and very little about his level of experience in flying the J-20 compared to other J-20 pilots... So I think we can't make any assumptions.

 

[Air Force Brat]

There's a LO coated window over them, so they aren't open to the airflow. The idea is to avoid an external fairing (which is generally the solution on non-stealthy aircraft) that breaks the outer mold line if at all possible. However, to ensure adequate field of view, the window needs to be considerably larger than the sensor, especially in directions where parts of the surrounding structure are blocking the intended line of sight. For these sensors on either side of the nose, the boat-like v-shaped cross section below the chine means the aperture has to extend far above the sensor location to provide for a decent upward field of view.

I was expecting the sensor(s, as it turned out*) to be sitting near the bottom of the window, but although I'd looked at countless photos previously, it seems none were both of high enough resolution *and* the right angle.

* Probably MAWS and LWR, alternatively UV and IR band MAWS for reduced false alarm rate.

Very Good Trident, and exactly right, hence the below the skin mounting of the lens apertures, I see the tint now, you're right this is a very high resolution photo. I still can't tell if the lens filter is flush mounted below the skin? or has a raised portion that fills the external shape and mounts flush with the external surface of the skin itself. That gray meta-material panel immediately aft, is certainly flush mounted, with a flange below the skin holding the fasteners for the countersunk screws, allowing the panel to completely fill the void...

So if we were guessing, could we suppose that the J-20 replicates the F-35 helmets ability to "see through" the aircraft structure?? using the EOTAS?

 

[Air Force Brat]

Did it take him less than two years to learn how to fly J-20? Back in mid. 2017, he only knew how to fly J-16 and J-10C

of course it took him less than two years, he is already an experienced aviator, a couple of weeks in cockpit simulator, and then into the very amazing full motion flight simulator, getting "dialed in", so a month or two in flight simulators, and out to the aircraft to fly with an instructor...

The instructor flies chase, observes the student's progress and talks him through the maneuvers, plugging in the numbers and V-speeds, for example, "pull the power levers back, lower the flaps at 180knts, and the gear at 150knts hold that until short final, then pull the power and come back on the stick crossing the threshold at 120 knts". Once you're flying is second nature, then on to weapons and tactics training to learn to "fight" the aircraft...

So of course, much less than two years, but being a pilot you are always learning, pushing the envelope until all this is as natural as breathing.

 

[Air Force Brat]

of course it took him less than two years, he is already an experienced aviator, a couple of weeks in cockpit simulator, and then into the very amazing full motion flight simulator, getting "dialed in", so a month or two in flight simulators, and out to the aircraft to fly with an instructor...

The instructor flies chase, observes the student's progress and talks him through the maneuvers, plugging in the numbers and V-speeds, for example, "pull the power levers back, lower the flaps at 180knts, and the gear at 150knts hold that until short final, then pull the power and come back on the stick crossing the threshold at 120 knts". Once you're flying is second nature, then on to weapons and tactics training to learn to "fight" the aircraft...

So of course, much less than two years, but being a pilot you are always learning, pushing the envelope until all this is as natural as breathing.

Of course there is lots and lots of classroom work, studying the Dash-One, failing this, and failing that, failing them on landing, and failing them on take off, and of course every flight, and I mean every flight is followed by full de-briefing, an often exhaustive debrief...

 

[by78]

Sitting pretty...

(2000 x 1126)

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

So if we were guessing, could we suppose that the J-20 replicates the F-35 helmets ability to "see through" the aircraft structure?? using the EOTAS?

DAS my friend EODAS Electro-optical Distributed Aperture System. EOTAS is only the portion under the nose. F35 is the more advanced form the AN/AAQ-37, Raptor has a less advanced system the AN/AAR-56 that works as a Missile Warning system.
These two as well likely that in the J20 are based on 6 IR cameras mounted under The skin at key points in the hull as described by @Tirdent.
The key difference is how the information is processed and relayed to the pilot. F22s system only has the capacity thus far to use that data to warn of an inbound missile threat.
This is due to the older computer and system as well as current lack of a HMD. It's been said that the system in the F22 could be updated to match the EODAS in the future.

F35s system is newer and can do two jobs at once. Use that data to scan for missiles and relay it to the helmet for a live image around the jet.

The question is how good is the Chinese system? It's new enough to possibly match the EODAS but the question is the computers and helmet.

 

[Blitzo]

DAS my friend EODAS Electro-optical Distributed Aperture System. EOTAS is only the portion under the nose. F35 is the more advanced form the AN/AAQ-37, Raptor has a less advanced system the AN/AAR-56 that works as a Missile Warning system.
These two as well likely that in the J20 are based on 6 IR cameras mounted under The skin at key points in the hull as described by @Tirdent.
The key difference is how the information is processed and relayed to the pilot. F22s system only has the capacity thus far to use that data to warn of an inbound missile threat.
This is due to the older computer and system as well as current lack of a HMD. It's been said that the system in the F22 could be updated to match the EODAS in the future.

F35s system is newer and can do two jobs at once. Use that data to scan for missiles and relay it to the helmet for a live image around the jet.

The question is how good is the Chinese system? It's new enough to possibly match the EODAS but the question is the computers and helmet.

Basically, at minimum it is probably some kind of uber 360 degrees spherical MAWS.

Whether it is more capable than that and offers automatic target tracking and ID, FLIR, or other progressively more advanced capabilities like 360 degree "x-ray vision" like what EODAS does is anyone's guess.


However based off the positioning of the 6 apertures on J-20 I wouldn't be surprised if such a function either exists or is on the cards with upgrades (software in particular)

 

[Air Force Brat]

Basically, at minimum it is probably some kind of uber 360 degrees spherical MAWS.

Whether it is more capable than that and offers automatic target tracking and ID, FLIR, or other progressively more advanced capabilities like 360 degree "x-ray vision" like what EODAS does is anyone's guess.


However based off the positioning of the 6 apertures on J-20 I wouldn't be surprised if such a function either exists or is on the cards with upgrades (software in particular)

I would suspect those capabilities are either present or c9ming soon,.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Basically, at minimum it is probably some kind of uber 360 degrees spherical MAWS.

Correct.
This by the way is part of my reasoning for feeling J20 is multi role.

As J20 has both those array and the EOTAS like array.
If the system on J20 is an EODAS then as a pure air superiority mission machine it shouldn't need EOTAS. As the functions of a IRST would be taken by the EODAS. The spherical coverage of the IR cameras being you IRST.
Unless the J20 system is somehow limited like the older system on the Raptor and just a all around MAWS. In which case the EOTAS like sensor is the IRST but only works in the forward arc.

But as F22s AN/AAR-56 MAWS has been said to be upgradable so, to should that on J20.
The two sensors AN/AAQ-37 EODAS and AN/AAR-56 MAWS
have similar image resolution, frame rate and operate in the same spectrums. Presumably the system on J20 is analogous and with the J20 not yet in full rate. One would assume that they could upgrade when ready, making the large optic on the underside of the nose redundant unless it was intended for ground attack.

 

[latenlazy]

Correct.
This by the way is part of my reasoning for feeling J20 is multi role.

As J20 has both those array and the EOTAS like array.
If the system on J20 is an EODAS then as a pure air superiority mission machine it shouldn't need EOTAS. As the functions of a IRST would be taken by the EODAS. The spherical coverage of the IR cameras being you IRST.
Unless the J20 system is somehow limited like the older system on the Raptor and just a all around MAWS. In which case the EOTAS like sensor is the IRST but only works in the forward arc.

But as F22s AN/AAR-56 MAWS has been said to be upgradable so, to should that on J20.
The two sensors AN/AAQ-37 EODAS and AN/AAR-56 MAWS
have similar image resolution, frame rate and operate in the same spectrums. Presumably the system on J20 is analogous and with the J20 not yet in full rate. One would assume that they could upgrade when ready, making the large optic on the underside of the nose redundant unless it was intended for ground attack.

A 360 IRST can be used to get a HOBS lock. An EODAS isn’t just useful for ground attack, but lookdown shots from high altitudes against planes at lower altitude. It might also allow for a bigger sensor that can provide more range and/or resolution in the forward angle. One being useful for air superiority does not preclude the other from adding even more capabilities for that role.