JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

plawolf

Lieutenant General
There is also the logistical consideration with munitions cost.

While Chinese PGMs are almost certain to be considerably cheaper than western ones, the PAF should have a sizeable existing inventory of western PGMs that they already bought and paid for.

Retiring the Mirages would probably make many if not most of them useless, as French munitions (especially the stand-off ones) are unlikely to be integrated with American F16s or JF17s.

Keeping the Mirages is most likely as much as about making the most of that existing munitions investment as it is about replacement priorities.

In peacetime, it is also unwise to make large munitions bulk purchases, as even with the best care and maintenance, munitions do date expire.

As such, it is far better to gradually build up you munitions inventory over years, with regular modest additions.

That way you can pretty much match munitions expiry with training needs to make sure munitions about to expire are used up during regular training and exercises to avoid wastage. Which is what I expect the PAF to be doing with Chinese munitions for their JF17s.

From a training value POV, it is far better to fire live munitions from a Mirage than it is to only get to use a JF17 simulator.

Extending the Mirage fleet operational lives is probably to try and allow them to use up all existing munitions in training.

You can probably also get a lot of carry over benefits when Mirage pilots do convert to JF17s or another replacement type from them getting regular training firing live weapons.
 

Franklin

Captain
I don't know what the JF-17 block III is going to look like but I hope they redesign the airframe to make it more manoeuvrable. A bubble canopy to give the pilot a 360° view and a larger nose cone to fit the new AESA radar and IRST. The design has been finalized back in march of this year. So we hope to see the first flying prototype at the end of next year or the beginning of 2020. The system integration shouldn't be a problem as Chengdu already has experience building the J-10C and the J-20.

A question. Why was HMS not integrated with the block II upgrade ?
 

jobjed

Captain
I don't know what the JF-17 block III is going to look like but I hope they redesign the airframe to make it more manoeuvrable. A bubble canopy to give the pilot a 360° view and a larger nose cone to fit the new AESA radar and IRST. The design has been finalized back in march of this year. So we hope to see the first flying prototype at the end of next year or the beginning of 2020. The system integration shouldn't be a problem as Chengdu already has experience building the J-10C and the J-20.

A question. Why was HMS not integrated with the block II upgrade ?

I interpreted that as you hope the JF-17 BLK III turns into a J-10C.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I don't know what the JF-17 block III is going to look like but I hope they redesign the airframe to make it more manoeuvrable. A bubble canopy to give the pilot a 360° view and a larger nose cone to fit the new AESA radar and IRST. The design has been finalized back in march of this year. So we hope to see the first flying prototype at the end of next year or the beginning of 2020. The system integration shouldn't be a problem as Chengdu already has experience building the J-10C and the J-20.

In terms of radar it makes more sense to design a new AESA to fit the existing radome; the LETRI AESA had already demonstrated it can be easily refit onto existing JF-17s and I imagine KLJ-7A was designed with something similar in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if an IRST could be added without substantial redesign of the nose either.

I can imagine some minor structural enhancements and tweaking the flight control software but I wouldn't look forward to any major airframe rework.

I expect Block III JF-17 to look broadly similar externally to Block I and II, but with most of the changes being in the avionics, potentially some of the materials and structure of the aircraft. If they are able to introduce a more powerful powerplant that would be attractive as well.


A question. Why was HMS not integrated with the block II upgrade ?

Probably because either it cost too much or the technology wasn't available in a satisfactory way or a combination of both.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
From a Pakistani "big shrimp" (Windjammer) from PDF:
Some insider news,

The JF-17 Block-3 is set to make a flight in August 2019 possibly on Pakistan independence Day.
The J-10C is without a doubt a very hi-tech platform and was the highlight of the exercise. But what is more intriguing is the fact that the Chinese had brought a PL-10 on the J-10C as well. Among the most lethal AAM of its class and if mated with the helmet on Block-3 JF it will wreak havoc . The folks also checked out its Eletro-Optical and IR sensor which again is being considered to be incorporated in Block-3. If both these add-ons are incorporated in Block-3 then any enemy edge is significantly blunted.
Block-3 will play a major role in a deal with Jordan and other Arab countries are waiting anxiously.
PAA is acquiring 60 ATAK gunships in two batches of 30.
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SinoSoldier

Colonel
One more nugget from Windjammer:

''Its almost unfair to compare Block-3 with the first two Blocks. Its pretty much like comparing a old non-MLU Block-15 with Block-52...simply no comparison! Also, Block-3 is featuring military-grade strength construction with newer composite materials further reducing the weight, increasing the airframe life of the JF and reducing its RCS from some angles too. The AESA radar will be the real game-changer cus its pretty much a stealthy radar, very difficult to detect and jam and can effectively operate in ECM environments. But after AESA the jewel in the crown will be the mating of PL-10 with the helmet and EO/IR sensor.

The PL-10 is just like the German IRST (Infra-Red Search and Tracking)...is a short-range high off-boresight imaging, infra-red-guided missile. It features thrust-vectoring giving the weapon a 90°off-bore sight capability. Now compare that with our current F-16 fleet. The AIM-9Ms we got have a high off-boresight shooting capability of 30 degrees on either side meaning the pilots can give that 'dirty look' uptill 30 degrees. This one has 90 degrees on both sides, same as the USAF AIM-9X, meaning there's no escape as the pilot turn his head all the way to the back. Rumour is the PL-10 features a laser proximity fuse meaning it can auto self-destruct if the laser senses that the PL-10 is about to miss the target but is close enough to cause enough damage by going kaboom so it'll go off. And once mated with the HMS (Helmet Mounted Sight) it can obtain lock-on both before and after launch as well.
Tidbit of the EO/IR sensor...Pilots will be able to clearly see what aircraft is coming with what weapon load some 40-60km away and what manoeuvres are being performed...they can even turn their radars off making Block-3s detection even more difficult...passive scanning and detection at its best. So once both these add-ons are incorporated you can see why the edge of the IAF, especially the Rafales and the rest of the IAF fleet will be significantly blunted. This is the reason why this latest Shaheen-7 caused so much distress to our neighbours''.

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by78

General
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