052C/052D Class Destroyers

[Bhurki]

That's not how things work here at Sinodefence Forum. It's expected that a claim very specific in nature, such as the one made by @Interstellar, is accompanied by a source. If the said claim is a speculation or educated guess, then it should be made clear, with an elaboration on the reasoning behind the speculation.

Or alternately, for whatever reasons, should @Interstellar not be willing to elaborate further, he may simply opt to ask us to wait and see. If he's eventually proven correct, then it will have added to his credibility and track record.

Sinodefence Forum is not a fanboy website; it sets a higher bar for what qualifies as "healthy speculation".

I'm just saying its kind of rude to force somebody to clarify something, and that too somebody like the guy who has been a source of good info in the past.
We're not exactly major stakeholders in any of the development that goes over at PLAN nor do we have any leverage over their decision.
Almost everything(future bound) on this forum is just a speculation unless there's an actual photo of something or an official mouthpiece confirms about it.
If we deduct the speculation, then we might as well just read the news.
The best thing right now as enthusiasts would be to shuffle throught he images, posts to find out the actual number of keels that have been laid supported by a bit of evidence.
I hope we get back to discussing the 052d after this.

 

[by78]

I'm just saying its kind of rude to force somebody to clarify something, and that too somebody like the guy who has been a source of good info in the past.
We're not exactly major stakeholders in any of the development that goes over at PLAN nor do we have any leverage over their decision.
Almost everything(future bound) on this forum is just a speculation unless there's an actual photo of something or an official mouthpiece confirms about it.
If we deduct the speculation, then we might as well just read the news.
The best thing right now as enthusiasts would be to shuffle throught he images, posts to find out the actual number of keels that have been laid supported by a bit of evidence.
I hope we get back to discussing the 052d after this.

I don't know who interstellar is, so I don't know his track record. And no, it's not rude to ask – I asked him nicely, not forced him – for more information.

Furthermore, his made a

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that says:

Notice he said the 21st hull of "052 series" launched on July 7th, which is true. There had been 6 052Cs and 14 052Ds up to that point, making a total of 20 052 types of both C and D variants.

However, his post here at SDF claims:

...keel of the 22nd 052D has been laid down two weeks ago.

Did he mean the 15th 052D or the 22nd hull of the 052-series? This is why we ask for clarifications.

 

[Mirabo]

If Interstellar made a claim and has no evidence to back up that claim, then there's no reason why anyone should believe it. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

If he has access to insider information, then he should make that clear. If it was purely speculation, then he should also make that clear. If he doesn't want to clarify anything, then that claim is invalid. Nothing personal - that's just how it is.

All this name-calling is getting ridiculous and, quite frankly, below the standards I've come to expect for this forum. It's perfectly reasonable for by78 to put anyone's speculative statements through rigorous fact-checking. To criticize him for doing that is plain bullshit.

 

[by78]

Just to clarify, I don't think it's impossible or even implausible that the 22nd hull of the D variant had been laid down. It's just that the claim was too specific to not warrant a source or at least some elaboration.

 

[asif iqbal]

Just to clarify, I don't think it's impossible or even implausible that the 22nd hull of the D variant had been laid down. It's just that the claim was too specific to not warrant a source or at least some elaboration.

I think he’s just deliberately pulling here

Clearly he means 052 and not D because in his twitter he’s clearly said 052

On SDF just to cause a stir he turned it into “D”

His post on SDF is clearly wrong and cannot be taken seriously

Anyone who question it was right and anyone who tried to justify it was wrong

Just because he’s a big shrimp means he can’t be Corrected ? Please

 

[by78]

I think he’s just deliberately pulling here

Clearly he means 052 and not D because in his twitter he’s clearly said 052

On SDF just to cause a stir he turned it into “D”

His post on SDF is clearly wrong and cannot be taken seriously

Anyone who question it was right and anyone who tried to justify it was wrong

Just because he’s a big shrimp means he can’t be Corrected ? Please

I think he might have perceived my questions as impinging on his honesty, which is not what I intended at all. I remember when I first joined the forum, I felt offended when someone had questioned a claim of mine, but I learned as time went on that people here have higher – and correct – standards (for documentation), and that I should either lighten up or sod off; and so I lightened up and adopted SDF's standards.

As for whether Interstellar's original claim was plausible, I think it is. Remember, we already have 15 hulls of D-variant in the water, and we know a few more units are being assembled in dry docks at Shanghai and Dalian, so it's possible that the 22nd 052D had just been laid down.

 

[jobjed]

I don't know who interstellar is, so I don't know his track record. And no, it's not rude to ask – I asked him nicely, not forced him – for more information.

Furthermore, his made a

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that says:

Notice he said the 21st hull of "052 series" launched on July 7th, which is true. There had been 6 052Cs and 14 052Ds up to that point, making a total of 20 052 types of both C and D variants.

However, his post here at SDF claims:

Did he mean the 15th 052D or the 22nd hull of the 052-series? This is why we ask for clarifications.

He means the 21st hull of the 052 family was launched while the 22nd of the 052D series was laid down. 052 ≢ 052D.

Even so, I'd like him to provide some explanation of his sources.

 

[Bhurki]

He means the 21st hull of the 052 family was launched while the 22nd of the 052D series was laid down. 052 ≢ 052D.

Even so, I'd like him to provide some explanation of his sources.

This is much more likely than what @asif iqbal is intending to push..

 

[Interstellar]

If you cannot name the original source behind your claim, then tell us more about this source. Does the source have an established track record of reliability? If your claim has no source, then how did you arrive at it? What's your reasoning process?

Remember, your claim was highly specific:


So please understand my need for further elaboration: how and where did you obtain the information and/or arrive at the specific conclusion that the 22nd hull was laid down some two weeks ago?

My source doesn't speak and of course, it has an established track record of reliability.

I'm reading in between the lines a little bit, but I think what is being asked is whether you're claiming to be an insider, and if you are making that claim then it would be preferable to provide some sort of proof of it.

I am not an insider and I never claimed to be one.

Interstellar

Clear it up

You said 22nd “052” on Twitter

And here you clearly said 22nd Type 052D

The latter is a nothing but fanboy stuff

I don't find any contradiction.

Please let me remind you that the tweet you referred to was posted two months ago.

 

[by78]

My source doesn't speak and of course, it has an established track record of reliability.

Thank you!

If you don't mind, is your source an insider of some kind, or someone who has access to an insider? I'm just curious. I'd understand if you are reticent about revealing further information about your source.