J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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by78

General
Once again, ambiguity. The actual fact is change; i.e, if we go look into the preceding compliance report, and the WS-15 does not show it, it indicates that the WS-15 has achieved sufficient maturity to be included on AVIC disclosures. This is not the same as "it's in production", but is reasonably close and a positive sign.

Could you furnish a link to or screenshot of the previous compliance report?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Actually, the document does NOT, I repeat, does NOT state that WS-15 is in production. The relevant sentence merely translates as the following:


The use of the Chinese word 产品, or 'product', does not necessarily imply that it's in production. It could be something that's intended for serial production but is still being worked on.

It is disclosure meaning official quarterly or half yearly info that has to be release to the public since it is public company traded on the stock exchange. As Inst said the fact they include WS15 mean that they will be or shortly be the product of the company. If you know anything about finance. If they lie than they are liable to suit by the share holder as misleading company future earning .Or worst they might be delisted from Shenzhen exchange So it has to be seen in context. So your interpretation cannot be seen in isolation(This is not literature class or Chinese as secondary language class)

The same thing if drug company like Merck said in their quarterly disclosure they have anti cancer drug than it mean they will have that product shortly.It is the document that is scrutinized by analyst then he issue recommendation to buy or sell Then people make their mind as to buy or sell that stock. It is serious business
 
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by78

General
It is disclosure meaning official quarterly or half yearly info that has to be release to the public since it is public company traded on the stock exchange. As Inst said the fact they include WS15 mean that they will be or shortly be the product of the company. If you know anything about finance. If they lie than they are liable to suit by the share holder as misleading company future earning .Or worst they might be delisted from Shenzhen exchange So it has to be seen in context. So your interpretation cannot be seen in isolation(This is not literature class or Chinese as secondary language class)

The same thing if drug company like Merck said in their quarterly disclosure they have anti cancer drug than it mean they will have that product shortly. Then people make their mind as to buy or sell that stock. It is serious business

Your original post states the following:
The company is currently producing WS-15, WS-10 and WZ-9, basically covering the needs of almost all aircraft currently in (PLAAF, PLA Aviation & PLAN Aviation) service.

My reply was targeted at the above quote, specifically the bolded and underlined part. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your subsequent reply is beyond the original scope and tangential.
 
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by78

General
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"In 2016... the WS-15 [among others] has seen orderly advances".

That's not an official AVIC document. It is a research note from
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, a financial services company.

Here's the relevant passage:
2016年,中国航空报报道“太行”发动机改进型号研制成功,对应17年子公司黎明公司中报业绩大幅增长。目前,以我国4代战机用大推重比发动机WS15,大涵道比大推力发动机WS20、中推力发动机WS13和直升机用涡轴系列发动机(WZ9、1600KW涡轴发动机等)为代表的新型发动机研制有序推进,未来必将完成俄制发动机的国产替代,新增量频现将有望维持公司业绩高速增长态势。

In 2016,
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reported on the successful development of an improved Taihang (WS-10) model, which should boost Liming Aero-Engine Group's 2017 financial performance. Currently, new engine development programs such as the WS-15, WS-20, and WS-13 turbofans, as well as new turboshaft engines, are progressing orderly. These engines will replace imported Russian products, further improving the company's financial results.

Basically, it states nothing we don't already know: WS-15 and other turbofan and turboshaft programs exist and that steady progress is being made toward the eventual goal of self-sufficiency in aero-engines. The analysts behind this research note don't appear to have any insider information and were relying on open source information, such as China Aviation News.

So my question to you is this: have you actually read previous official AVIC compliance reports, as you had claimed?
 
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Inst

Captain
Actually, my last message challenged you on your sincerity and on your intent. I messaged you because we have a strongly eristic tone to our conversation where your entire point is "get the hell off my forum", however coached in polite language.

Generally speaking, getting into prolonged personal arguments is not good for anyone's health, and while I was interested in obliging your questions, I won't, except through what I have already shown. Feel free to blurt as you'd like, I'm more interested right now in democraticizing CJDBY threads by translating them onto Sinodefenceforum.
 

by78

General
Actually, my last message challenged you on your sincerity and on your intent. I messaged you because we have a strongly eristic tone to our conversation where your entire point is "get the hell off my forum", however coached in polite language.

Generally speaking, getting into prolonged personal arguments is not good for anyone's health, and while I was interested in obliging your questions, I won't, except through what I have already shown. Feel free to blurt as you'd like, I'm more interested right now in democraticizing CJDBY threads by translating them onto Sinodefenceforum.

I agree with you, so let's not dwell on the petty personal aspect any further, for my last reply on tis thread should more than suffice.

Let's instead focus on the substantive, namely my as yet unanswered questions and request:
1) Do you understand written Chinese without the aid of a translation service, human or computerized?
2) Have you read this 'preceding compliance report' that you had referred to in your previous post?
3) Could you, for our edification, provide an URL for the current 'compliance report', as well as one for the 'preceding compliance report'?


I trust you are not purposely evading them because you are unable.

Let us move forward in a spirit of trust and comity.
 

by78

General
Okay, I'll insult your intelligence by calling you senseless. That said, I was not fibbing. You read my statement as you wanted to read it, which was to say that I had read the compliance report, when I never said so.

And I forgot to clarify one point, which is that I didn't exclusively interpret your statement as saying that you had read the 'compliance report', but rather, I also expressed my belief that you had mistaken
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as an official document from AVIC's aero-engine subsidiaries, when it's merely a research note from a brokerage firm. This is why I subsequently asked you to provide a link to the previous official 'compliance report'; but I was disappointed when you instead provided a link to yet another research note by yet another brokerage firm.

Which reminds me, could you finally please provide us with a link to the official 'preceding compliance report'?

And there is one last small matter...
I said that if you looked at it, and noticed a difference in terminology, not different from the changes in the Fed's terms, it would imply a change. That is tautological.

Sorry to be a pedant, but you actually didn't say if "you looked at it". Instead, what you actually said was the following:
...if we go look into the preceding compliance report...
In other words, you had originally used 'we', which begs the question: were you fibbing or did you make an honest mistake?
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
@Hendrik_2000 and @Inst,

AVICSEC, which produced the
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in question, is the brokerage arm of AVIC Capital, and as such, produces research notes on various companies, businesses, and industries to advise clients on investment strategies. AVICSEC happens to write up a research note on a fellow AVIC subsidiary, namely the Xi'an Aero-engine PLC (XAC), which is in charge of the WS-15 program.

I seriously doubt AVICSEC has any insider information or special insight into the status of the WS-15 program, notwithstanding its sibling relations with XAC. Even if it did, it wouldn't publish it in a research note made available to the public. But all of this is moot, as I have pointed out previously, the research note does not state or imply that WS-15 is in production, but merely acknowledges its existence at XAC, which is common knowledge.

@Inst, you previously stated the following:


Be straight with me, were you fibbing? Please don't insult my intelligence.

Again you have no clue how a finance company work.Even assuming that your post is true. The analyst who wrote this research definitely has to talk to the company in question first That is their job issuing recommendation without due diligence is FRAUD or even criminal. So your assumption is wrong

It is common practice everywhere They get access to the highest corporate ladder!

It is not like they sit in their office and use their fantasy to write a report!
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Okay, I'll insult your intelligence by calling you senseless. That said, I was not fibbing. You read my statement as you wanted to read it, which was to say that I had read the compliance report, when I never said so. I said that if you looked at it, and noticed a difference in terminology, not different from the changes in the Fed's terms, it would imply a change. That is tautological.

FYI, have fun; checked, doesn't seem to mention WS-15 on actual compliance reports.
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Wait, so if you didn’t read it then *why* did you feel so sure about your claim, to the point where you’d protract a contentious back and forth trying to defend something that wasn’t actually there?
 
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