Chinese Economics Thread

[Hendrik_2000]

Government does not create wealth? I'm sorry, but what do you think those SOEs do? Doing oil exploration is not creating wealth? Managing finances is not creating wealth? Building HSR lines is not creating wealth? How about providing health care, education, and child care? Entertainment? Telecommunications? Space exploration?

Most of those SOE are LOOSING money and some of them are Zombie company half death .They generate miserly 3% profit as aggregate
private economy is only 40% of the total economy but they generate something like 70% of the job created
Now I understand the need for SOE because for some industry only government has the capital and wherwithal to do it. Like Aerospace, transport , power etc
But the wealth created in China is by enlarge created by the private company! and tax are collected to support those SOE. In other word they are heavily subsidized! And borrow like there is no tomorrow creating debt burden

 

[taxiya]

I am not dismissive of CCP I admire the early year of CCP 1950 to 1960 when they start the reconstruction of China using just sweat power to industrialize and built school, hospital, road, railway, dam, heavy industry, empowering woman,land reform etc It is epic effort
I still like the "propaganda song of that period"
During this time 120,000 overseas Chinese return to China to build "new China" But what they got ?They are accused of being a spy. capitalist roader and hounded down. Many left China after CR and take refugee in Hongkong There are still there half million of them

But from then on they erred in big way by micromanaging people life, going into hair splitting, ideology infighting and disregard the economy in the name of ideology purity
Obsession with dogma etc. thrashing the traditional Chinese culture
It kept China poor and ignorant. we shake our head what is going on Where is the pragmatic and practical Chinese that we know and valued!

it is not until DXP come to power that China come to their senses and they still pay for that 3 decades of lost years You see in the semiconductor fight goin on now
60's is the incubation time of semiconductor while in China they hols useless meeting of ideology purity. Now 50 years on China still pay for those lost time
Yo cannot build semiconductor overnight if you are so behind!

I got the feeling of your dismissive because the words "Communism is a failure" that you used few pages back. I also got the feeling from your earlier posts regarding SOEs that I was also involved in debating. The feeling got stronger when you repeatedly elevating DXP's visit to Singapore and LKY's "teaching" as the root of the recent advancement, as if what was done by CCP up till the culture revolution was all failures which is not at all. Without Mao funding PRC and its industrial foundation (the one who made disasters in cultural revolution in your view), Deng Xiaoping would not be able to do anything he did. Xi is standing on the shoulders of Deng who is standing on the shoulders of Mao.

What I want you to consider is that, you can not cherry pick CCP just like you can not cherry pick a person. An organization, a country and an individual is a whole piece, they all make good and bad. You can only conclude overall. You like it as whole accepting its fault without calling it a failure. If you call it a failure, you are judging the bad side overweighting the good side, then you are dismissive even if you acknowledge some bits of goodness.

Yes, Chinese are paying for the faults in 1960s and 1970s, even today. But we are also enjoying the rights done by the very same CCP and PRC in other times. As a person, I won't blame my brother's fault over and over again while enjoying his good work. It all depends on whether you see "we vs. they" or "there is only we", "they made disasters" vs. "we made a mistake". Apparently, your view is "we vs. they", I and others see "we" only. This is natural, as you are a Singaporean, to you not only CCP is a they, but also the Chinese citizens are they. I and other Chinese citizens who do not want a revolution (do everything over again) in China, have chosen to move on, so we only have "we".

To be blatantly honest, even a Chinese citizen, after taking up foreign citizenship and have Children born abroad, would eventually take the "we vs. they" altitude, that is inevitable because the stake has changed, their life depends on their new home more than China. China becomes just a symbol, not about their salary, pension, Children's welfare and future etc.​

 

[Jura The idiot]

Hendrik... I think your post is very strange:

Most of those SOE are LOOSING money and some of them are Zombie company half death .They generate miserly 3% profit as aggregate
private economy is only 40% of the total economy but they generate something like 70% of the job created
Now I understand the need for SOE because for some industry only government has the capital and wherwithal to do it. Like Aerospace, transport , power etc
But the wealth created in China is by enlarge created by the private company! and tax are collected to support those SOE. In other word they are heavily subsidized! And borrow like there is no tomorrow creating debt burden

as far as I recall (but it's been three decades now) a Marxist country needs 'means of production', as the whole point is 'class struggle' to defeat 'rotten capitalism' (actually I'm unsure how Chinese billionaires fit in, but I don't mean to make a political post)

 

[Jura The idiot]

now I read
Trade war has limited impact on Chinese economy: economist
Xinhua| 2018-07-06 16:16:50

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The trade war involving 50 billion U.S. dollars between China and the United States will have limited impact on the Chinese economy, central bank economist Ma Jun said on Friday.

With the 25-percent additional tariffs on Chinese products worth 34 billion U.S. dollars effective on Friday, the United States has ignited the largest trade war in economic history, according to the Ministry of Commerce.

The research team led by Ma found that the trade war will slow China's GDP growth by 0.2 percent with full consideration of the second and third rounds of impact of reduced exports on related industries.

"The trade war involving 50 billion U.S. dollars has been discussed for over two months with its impact on the economy, industry and enterprises already digested, and some impact has even been over interpreted," said Ma Jun.

Ma, a member of the monetary policy committee of the People's Bank of China, added that the trade war will not necessarily have much impact on the capital market and exchange rates.

For industries that will experience a relatively bigger impact, necessary countermeasures will be considered to lower the impact, said Ma.

 

[solarz]

Most of those SOE are LOOSING money and some of them are Zombie company half death .They generate miserly 3% profit as aggregate
private economy is only 40% of the total economy but they generate something like 70% of the job created
Now I understand the need for SOE because for some industry only government has the capital and wherwithal to do it. Like Aerospace, transport , power etc
But the wealth created in China is by enlarge created by the private company! and tax are collected to support those SOE. In other word they are heavily subsidized! And borrow like there is no tomorrow creating debt burden

Profit =/= Wealth!!!

Wall street bankers are making tons of profit. Are they enriching the lives of ordinary Americans?

China's HSR operates at a loss (before subsidies) and has a ton of debt, but there is no question that it generates a ton of wealth every day.

 

[solarz]

Hendrik... I think your post is very strange:
as far as I recall (but it's been three decades now) a Marxist country needs 'means of production', as the whole point is 'class struggle' to defeat 'rotten capitalism' (actually I'm unsure how Chinese billionaires fit in, but I don't mean to make a political post)

Jesus H. Christ, you still think China is a marxist country?? Do you even READ those articles that you're posting all the time??

 

[taxiya]

Hendrik... I think your post is very strange:
as far as I recall (but it's been three decades now) a Marxist country needs 'means of production', as the whole point is 'class struggle' to defeat 'rotten capitalism' (actually I'm unsure how Chinese billionaires fit in, but I don't mean to make a political post)

There are more than one variant of Marxism. The variants of Marxism of constant class struggle and defeat global capitalism (world revolution) were the past, including the USSR, China in Mao's era and Eastern Europeans etc. The other variant is what today's China, Vietnam, Cuba and others who claim to adhere. This variant is determined to develop what Marx wanted within an established state without export revolution. This variant envision an eventual global Marxism by evolution, peaceful competition how long it will take. It is focused to do the homework well. That is why the reform and incorporating useful experience and lessons from whomever including capitalism. You have seen that in China, Vietnam and Cuba, and soon you will see that in NK.

It is still Marxism, but not the kind of Marxism that you remember from your own communism experience. On this count, the modern communists are way more open-minded than western capitalists/democrats who still live in the era of "revolution(I really mean regime change)", "end of history", "I am the best", "I am invincible" mindset.

 

[taxiya]

Now something light for a laugh, don't take it seriously.

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The ship is called "Peak Pegasus" which carries Soybeans sailing at its top speed to reach Dalian port before the custom office close at 4:30PM Beijing Time, otherwise it will face the 25% tariff. Unfortunately it reached the port on 5:30PM. The 4:30PM deadline is made assuming the 25% is enforced on a full working day (7th) instead of any time in the day (12:01PM of 6th).

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Reuters, on the other hand, reported that the initial plan (with source) was to arrive before 12:00PM of 6th assuming 12:00PM being the deadline.

Anyways, the exact cutoff time is not the center. It is the racing and attraction the ship has gathered being the center. It has been a internet hit. Some joked "If the ship stays around for few more days so the soybeans become soybean sprouts, it may bypass the tariff as it is not beans anymore."

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I am not against Chinese citizen or CCP or China . All I want to say is that a system that does not take account of Chinese people natural instinct(culture) will bound to end up in failure.China is successful now because it incorporate those instinct now.

I am all in awe of the indefatigable spirit of Chinese people No set back or failure can dampen their spirit in search of wealth. Always look for the future no need to cry over spoiled milk. Never give up!
Remind me of my ancestor.

After long hiatus of almost half decade Chinese immigration resume its natural course that is southward
NHK aired this excellent program last year about Chinese immigrant in Laos who come penniless and thru hard work and communal spirit built wealth. This is what I mean by culture

But apparently nothing goes straight in this life. the mall that become the hub of their life got burned down. NHk come back and interview the same people and see how they are doing Very inspirational and moving. unfortunately NHK has not upload the document in youtube So you have to click the link
I salute NHK doing this report I guess it is also aired in Japanese version. We don't see eye to eye when it come to history or politic but on the personal level I guess they see kindred spirit

Here is the original story
The number of Chinese immigrants to Laos increases daily, with men and women who struggled to succeed in the quickly developing country seeking new lives for themselves. More than wealth or opportunity, they wish to begin anew in a country where life moves at a slower pace, without any the stress of their homeland. Around them grow new communities and groups, reflecting the unique presence they bring to Laos. In this episode, we follow the Chinese people who have traveled to Laos in search of a better quality of life, free from the hustle and bustle of their homeland.

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The Changing Chinese Society in Laos
Broadcast on July 5, 2018

In 2016, Asia Insight reported on a flourishing Chinese mall located in Laos, known to locals as the "Chinese castle". It had served as the center of business for many Chinese merchants, but in July of 2017, a sudden fire burned the complex to the ground. With their hard work turned to ash before their eyes, many returned home to China, and a small few relocated and rebuilt their businesses. However, with the start of the One Belt One Road policy, business competition from major firms has intensified, leaving little room for smaller shopkeepers to flourish. In this episode, we reconnect with the Chinese merchants struggling to get by in rapidly changing Laos.

Available until July 19, 2018

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[mr.bean]

Now something light for a laugh, don't take it seriously.

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The ship is called "Peak Pegasus" which carries Soybeans sailing at its top speed to reach Dalian port before the custom office close at 4:30PM Beijing Time, otherwise it will face the 25% tariff. Unfortunately it reached the port on 5:30PM. The 4:30PM deadline is made assuming the 25% is enforced on a full working day (7th) instead of any time in the day (12:01PM of 6th).

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Reuters, on the other hand, reported that the initial plan (with source) was to arrive before 12:00PM of 6th assuming 12:00PM being the deadline.

Anyways, the exact cutoff time is not the center. It is the racing and attraction the ship has gathered being the center. It has been a internet hit. Some joked "If the ship stays around for few more days so the soybeans become soybean sprouts, it may bypass the tariff as it is not beans anymore."

man this US-China trade war is more entertaining than that crappy Solo movie!