F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Deleted member 13312]

"Baloney" Victor, NO test pilots have been "muzzled",, LockMart is the PRIME CONTRACTOR, they share production with Boeing and lots of other contractors.. every government funded project in the US is let out for bid, no "blackmail".....

LockMart is very good at what they do,,, the "OWN" the market, because nobody else has the technology, nor the expertise to win those contracts, Boeing had an aircraft in competition with the X-35, their own X-32,,,,, it was and is a DOG! The X-35 won the contract against every other competing design, and then beat Boeing out in the Fly-Off, if the Fly-Off were held today, tomorrow, next year, ten years from now, the X-35 would still kick the poor little ugly X-32's butt, over and over again!

Oh, and China did not attempt to use ANY design elements from the X-32, did they, LOL!

in addition NorthRupp welds up the titanium center fuse section using robotics, a great contract win for their own innovation...

I don't think you understand what I am trying to convey here. When I say blackmail, I do not mean "blackmail: in the conventional sense. What LM was called "pork barrelling" which meant that it purposely spread out the production of the F-35 to as many states as it can in the US. So no politician can make a serious attempt at killing the project without damning his own constituents job prospects (and in relation his political career). Ever wonder why most US military procurement are marketed on their ability to "produce jobs" just as much as their ability to defeat the opponent ?
And the Pentagon did not help the situation by damning the US legacy fleet by cutting maintenance and spare part supply, and lets not forget the dunnerhead who made the brilliant idea of trying to get one common plane for all 3 service which means that if the F-35 was not chosen, not a single service would have a new fighter. Literally everything was sacrificed up on the silver platter for the F-35. This desire for anything new, even when most opponents world wide are barely getting their feet wet with the concept of 5th gen fighters is exactly what LM preys upon.
And seeing how many ex military generals gets cushy jobs as consultants in defense firms after they retire, that should not be so surprising.
Don't you see. by guile and deceit. LM positioned itself in such a way that the US is literally being forced to buy the F-35. It bought up General Dynamics design firm, which caused them to drop out of the race. Boeing's profession was making bombers and passenger planes so it was never a fair match to begin with.
That is one thing LM is good at I will give it, and that is politicking and congressional lobbying. Bringing China into this does not chance it one iota. In fact if Chengdu or Shenyang ever tried to pull this off, a hefty fine would be the most lenient punishment that they can expect.

 

[ougoah]

Too many "accountable" nations involved and presumably satisfied with the F-35 for it to be the complete failure it is purported to be by the usual suspects. But I guess this isn't what Victor is saying. X-35 beat the X-32 because it was better and more suited for the tender. Just like YF-22 beat the YF-23 and no the YF-23 isn't some super duper stealthier version of the YF-22 (NG was convincingly beat by LM here if people bother to read up the history). So this indicates that any procurement incompetence is just untrue outside of the actual decision making between the competing projects. LM's hold onto this area of the MIC developed out of these two success stories rather than the reverse. Notwithstanding the very real consequences of LM's stranglehold on US air power today and the political dealings done to pave the way to its current success.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Too many "accountable" nations involved and presumably satisfied with the F-35 for it to be the complete failure it is purported to be by the usual suspects. But I guess this isn't what Victor is saying. X-35 beat the X-32 because it was better and more suited for the tender. Just like YF-22 beat the YF-23 and no the YF-23 isn't some super duper stealthier version of the YF-22 (NG was convincingly beat by LM here if people bother to read up the history). So this indicates that any procurement incompetence is just untrue outside of the actual decision making between the competing projects. LM's hold onto this area of the MIC developed out of these two success stories rather than the reverse.

I never claimed that the F-35 is a complete failure, but I do believe that the F-35's procurement process is one of the worst displays of inepitute, political wrangling and waste that the US MIC have ever produced.
All military procurement projects have some form of political backing, but the F-35 takes the cake, the tablecloth and the table beneath it as it is the private sector that turned the tables back on the politicians in this instance.

 

[ougoah]

It seems the MIC in the US places priority in enriching itself and its partners rather than meeting the actual needs of the military by relating it to strategic goals. I say priority because the two are still very much related. Unfortunately for them, they've placed more emphasis on building unnecessarily complex things similar to Nazi wonder weapon projects in the last century. The MIC has taken advantage of the wealth of the US nation and abused the goodwill of its citizens. The F-35 is a prime example that armchair pundits like to use. It doesn't take away from its capabilities but looking at the numbers, it is clear that the US as a nation places greater emphasis in maintaining its superior military. The price to pay for using its might to control the flow of wealth and resources around the world like an imperial power is having this MIC set-up that eventually becomes so bloated it creates exceedingly expensive toys which represent total overkill for the vast majority of its potential rivals. This is their choice and their's to make. Who knows what the of an inefficient MIC will bring.

But the US does not need to hope for an F-4 miracle in the F-35. F-35 certainly won't flop. The real danger is overspending and the opportunity cost of going down this path rather than pursuing a leaner procurement model. They say that quality is expensive. Surely nothing good comes from cheap things but heavy pricetags also don't always guarantee quality. Let's believe the LM salesman for now. Most customers seem happy and even if it ends up being a super low weapons capacity fighter that ends up being easily tracked and engaged in the coming years, it is still backed by the heaviest arsenal of 4th gen fighters on the planet. As a proportion of all military spending F-35 does not mean a death sentence for the USAF even if worse comes to worst.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

As a proportion of all military spending F-35 does not mean a death sentence for the USAF even if worse comes to worst.

Yeah sure, it only means that the USAF, the USN, US Army and the Marines's fighter wing would be all compromised at the same time if worse comes to the worse. We aren't talking about just one branch being seriously handicapped, we are talking about the whole armed force. A literal, total decapitation.

 

[ougoah]

Compromised relative to spending those funds on existing 4th gens? How so? Even if worse comes to worst for the F-35, it is at least going to be more capable than those 4th gens when dealing with 99% of the world. For the remaining 1%, F-35s still represent a capable platform and demands that 1% pour massive funds into countering the strategic advantage gained by 5th gens like F-35. So it does not in any way compromise their armed forces. Show me a detailed example of how it does.

 

[Obi Wan Russell]

617 SQN LINED UP TO FLY: HERE THEY COME!
The first picture of the 1st 617 Sqn F35B Lightning wave lined up at Beaufort USMCS South Carolina this morning 6 June at dawn ready to start and fly home to the UK today.
They are now en-route with their Voyager tankers which launched from Gander to meet them enroute, and an Atlas transport routeing seperately - 617 Sqn expected any time at Marham after 1900ish - 6 June

 

[Jura The idiot]

now noticed this tweet:

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Interesting! It takes over 41,500 labor hours to build an F-35A, 60,000 for an F-35C, and about 6,000 rework hours to correct defects and other issues. These metrics are falling which is good. This is from the most recent GAO report.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

the Pentagon did not help the situation by damning the US legacy fleet by cutting maintenance and spare part supply, and lets not forget the dunnerhead who made the brilliant idea of trying to get one common plane for all 3 service which means that if the F-35 was not chosen, not a single service would have a new fighter. Literally everything was sacrificed up on the silver platter for the F-35. This desire for anything new, even when most opponents world wide are barely getting their feet wet with the concept of 5th gen fighters is exactly what LM preys upon.
And seeing how many ex military generals gets cushy jobs as consultants in defense firms after they retire, that should not be so surprising.

Wait What? Where in the hell did you pull that from?
F16 is getting a upgrade, F15C-D is under debate for an upgrade with active production for Export and likley upgrades for F15E.
F/A18E-F are in active production with upgrade projects.

The Trouble spots are F18C-D which was the Marines not having jumped on the Super Hornet so they could try and maintain the Harrier II.
The Spare parts supply wasn't cut It was burned up by combat operations. Every flight op in Iraq and Afghanistan demanded more repair and spare parts then an occasional training flight stateside.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Wait What? Where in the hell did you pull that from?
F16 is getting a upgrade, F15C-D is under debate for an upgrade with active production for Export and likley upgrades for F15E.
F/A18E-F are in active production with upgrade projects.

The Trouble spots are F18C-D which was the Marines not having jumped on the Super Hornet so they could try and maintain the Harrier II.
The Spare parts supply wasn't cut It was burned up by combat operations. Every flight op in Iraq and Afghanistan demanded more repair and spare parts then an occasional training flight stateside.

The F-16 should have gotten that upgrade ages ago, ditto goes to the F-15C (It should not have been a debate in the first place). The Marines did not jumped on the Super Hornet because of the promised F-35 and we saw how well that went.
That the operations in ME demanded an increase of maintenance and upkeep should not come at a surprise, yet it required it to become a problem until the higher ups were cognizant of it. That is the very definition of neglect in any book.