So, basically what "we know" is not 100% sure? OK...
CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations
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So, basically what "we know" is not 100% sure? OK...
Yes, I already saw many pictures and drawings and I am just not 100% convinced. Not saying you are wrong, just still not convinced about the length 100%, that is all.
Ex-Varyag and Kuznetsov have the same hangar size and config. We know that from literature. The 002's hangar was seen when the ship's modules were being assembled in drydock. The pictures in this thread from late-2015 show it's no bigger than the hangar on the Liaoning.
There is no shortage of myths surrounding the Chinese carrier program. The most egregious is the claim that Liaoning displaces 68,000t when in reality, her full displacement is 10,000t less. Another myth is that the PLAN removed the Granits and extended the hangar forward when in reality, the Granits are situated much, much further forward of where the hangar ends, and between then lies the ordnance storage and handling area which is directly below the ordnance elevators situated between the two jet blast deflectors. There is no practical way to extend the hangar forward without fundamentally changing the structure of the vessel which defeats the purpose of retrofitting the ship in the first place which was to shorten development time because the Soviets already did 40% of the work.
The 002's being built with a larger hangar is another one of those myths. The full airwing capacity of the two STOBARs is 24 J-15s each; there is no increase in airwing on the 002 over Liaoning. Assigning any more J-15s to either carrier and combat effectiveness starts to plummet due to overcrowding. The PLAN want carriers, not glorified plane transports. I'm pretty sure the origin of these rumours come from either shitty SCMP, WantChinaTimes, or Sputnik speculation that got quoted out of proportion by English publications. Now they've been repeated so many times that they've become de facto truth despite their being complete bullshit.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
PLAN is at the very infancy of carrier operations and ambition and as such much fanfare is created by and about both Liaoning and CV17 etc. I suspect as vaunted and celebrated as these ships are, the truth is PLAN thinks long term and they know full well of the shortcomings of these vessels. I fully expect them to phase BOTH of them out (certainly Liaoning) way before their useful end of lives.
STOBAR and skijumps are just the crawling phase.
They will be decomm when CVs and CVNs come online in the forseeable future.
Unlike other nations where the carrier building and designs are matured, stabilized or pretty much status quo, Liaoning and CV17 are just temporary stop gap vessels to get their feet wet in carrier aviation and provide some useful; force projection capabilities in the meantime. nothing more nothing less.
Unlike say the USN, where our carriers are for the most part relatively similar to say 1990, PLAN of 2050 will be NOTHING like the PLAN of today.
STOBAR and skijumps are just the crawling phase.
They will be decomm when CVs and CVNs come online in the forseeable future.
Unlike other nations where the carrier building and designs are matured, stabilized or pretty much status quo, Liaoning and CV17 are just temporary stop gap vessels to get their feet wet in carrier aviation and provide some useful; force projection capabilities in the meantime. nothing more nothing less.
Unlike say the USN, where our carriers are for the most part relatively similar to say 1990, PLAN of 2050 will be NOTHING like the PLAN of today.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The PLA does not waste equipment by retiring them early. Just look at all the legacy museum pieces worthy stuff they are still operating even today.
If it works and serves a valid purpose, the PLA will keep it rather than spend huge sums to buy something new to do the same job just for the sake of having something newer.
As such, I think they will eek out all the use they can out of their first pair of carriers. We may even see them converted for catobar ops, although it will probably only be for the waist, with the ski jump retained both to reduce the amount of work needed, but also to allow them to continue to use all the STOBAR J15s.
The very worst case scenario, they could keep the two as dedicated training carriers to make sure all the frontline carriers have fully qualified pilots ready for immediate deployment rather than having to relegate a full frontline carrier to training duties for 1/4-1/3 of their lives as the USN does.
Lethe
Captain
I have real trouble envisioning CV-16 or CV-17 being retired before 2035 for the same reason there are still 053H1s and 052s in the fleet today: there aren't enough modern ships around yet to meet China's force structure requirements. If China is aiming for a six carrier Navy then it could probably achieve that goal by 2035. But if CV-16 and CV-17 are retired early then the attainment date for such a force is pushed back accordingly.
Once the PLAN has sufficient super carriers/catapult carriers be they conventional or nuclear I think pretty much all the options mentioned will be valid for the ski jump carriers:
- In peacetime they can still be used for training, international visits and exchanges, etc.
- In MOOTW they can be used more as LHA's for delivering aid, emergency evacuations, etc.
- In wartime they can still very much make a difference working in conjunction with land based aircraft up through the 1st island chain.
- Finally in retirement they would make great museums, perhaps even floating theme parks, not so much casinos though.
- In peacetime they can still be used for training, international visits and exchanges, etc.
- In MOOTW they can be used more as LHA's for delivering aid, emergency evacuations, etc.
- In wartime they can still very much make a difference working in conjunction with land based aircraft up through the 1st island chain.
- Finally in retirement they would make great museums, perhaps even floating theme parks, not so much casinos though.
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