054/A FFG Thread II

[Deleted member 13312]

The current rumour is that 054B will also be fitted with the H/AKJ-16 VLS as on 054A. As such it is not at all clear that PLAN considers it a legacy system that has been superseded by the 052D/055 VLS, but rather the two systems may continue to coexist for the foreseeable future. Nonetheless I expect that Pakistan would request and receive information about the long-term status of the system and planned/potential munitions and corresponding guidance/targeting requirements before making any decisions regarding VLS, radar fit, etc.

But surely the standardization of a single VLS type in the PLAN will greatly ease logistics and maintenance. Granted the Type 54As will still serve for at least 30 years or so, but still.
Seeing as the PLAN prizes modularity among its ship's greatly, that is a rather odd choice to make.

 

[Iron Man]

Certainty there is nothing wrong with the current setup, but the current configuration and tech of it suits the PLAN more than it does the Pakistanis. Unless Pakistan has some plans in the future to get destroyers, these ship are going to be the front line vessels. And like it or not, their likely opponents are going to be the IN's DDGs, not to mention their airforce. Even if they are not meant to be a direct counter.
I am going with Tam's suggestion of an upgraded radar over the main stay Type 54As. And if they are going to stick with the HHQ-16s, they better get the upgrade versions with the extended range.
While Pakistant's navy can be easily satisfied with a baseline Type 54A at the moment, these ships are going to be in service for the next 30 years or so. So long time relevancy have to be considered as well.

Even if the PN will use the 054A as front line vessels, major warships nowadays are not designed or built to counter other ships, they are designed primarily to counter perceived air threats and secondarily, ASuW and ASW. This is why the 054A for its size is a very decent vessel; it's described as "multirole" but really its main job is anti-air.

Speaking of which, an upgraded mast-top radar will not directly extend the range of any HHQ-16 iteration; it would instead increase target acquisition resolution, range (typically far in excess of the FCR/missile's range) and number of targets tracked. The range of the HHQ-16 will depend entirely on the FCR and the missile's own performance.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

The main job of type 054A is ASW.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-type-054-ffg-thread-ii.t4149/page-359#post-489129

 

[antiterror13]

has China officially confirmed there's such a thing as "contract for Pakistani Type 054"
??

now used google, the most recent "article" on this topic is Pakistan Signs Contract for Type 054A Frigates from China

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EDIT
now noticed the tweet

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[Article] La marine pakistanaise signe pour deux autres frégate Type 054A

Translated from French by

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Article Pakistani Navy signs for two other frigate Type 054A

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…

also here

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[Jura The idiot]

also here

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thanks, but, within "(143 of 402 words)" I can see, that Jane's article regurgitates Pakistani info, while I asked if there's anything official from China Yesterday at 4:48 PM

 

[Tam]

Certainty there is nothing wrong with the current setup, but the current configuration and tech of it suits the PLAN more than it does the Pakistanis. Unless Pakistan has some plans in the future to get destroyers, these ship are going to be the front line vessels. And like it or not, their likely opponents are going to be the IN's DDGs, not to mention their airforce. Even if they are not meant to be a direct counter.
I am going with Tam's suggestion of an upgraded radar over the main stay Type 54As. And if they are going to stick with the HHQ-16s, they better get the upgrade versions with the extended range.
While Pakistant's navy can be easily satisfied with a baseline Type 54A at the moment, these ships are going to be in service for the next 30 years or so. So long time relevancy have to be considered as well.

I think the frigate proposals may have been worked for a long time, starting in 2013 when this first appeared. This predated the "Type 057" or "CSSC 4000 ton frigate" concept. Call it the "CSOC High Performance Frigate". The spec numbers are identical to the 054A, so everything here looks like an 054A with the front superstructure redressed like the MILGEM. Something like the SR2410C replaces the Type 382 radar on the front mast, with an EW tower on the rear mast in front of the funnel where the Type 364 is.








I am thinking they may just put Type 730s where the AK-630s are.


Or maybe just squared off the front, and put the 730s on the waist, like on the later "4000 ton frigate" proposal, which also seems like a redressed 054A to me.





Or they square off the nose of the superstructure, put a stand there, and place a Type 1130 there instead of having dual 730s.

 

[Iron Man]

The main job of type 054A is ASW.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-type-054-ffg-thread-ii.t4149/page-359#post-489129

Being the most capable ASW vessel in the PLAN is not the same thing as saying the main job of the 054A is ASW; these statements are not identical. But in point of fact I don't agree that the 054A is still the most capable ASW vessel in the PLAN. The 052D is certainly more capable than the 054A at ASW. Its VDS and larger VLS capacity automatically makes it superior to the 054A. The 055 will soon usurp the role of "best ASW" from the 052D with its dual hangars and possibly improved sensors, and of course even greater VLS capacity.

 

[Blitzo]

But in point of fact I don't agree that the 054A is still the most capable ASW vessel in the PLAN. The 052D is certainly more capable than the 054A at ASW. Its VDS and larger VLS capacity automatically makes it superior to the 054A. The 055 will soon usurp the role of "best ASW" from the 052D with its dual hangars and possibly improved sensors, and of course even greater VLS capacity.

Regarding VDS, do we have any indication that 054A uses a different VDS from 052D? Or different from 056A or even 055 for that matter?

Because we've had photos of 054A, 056A and 052D's VDS, and they all appear to be externally identical in shape and the same size from eyeballing it. In which case I'm not sure if there's a case to be made for 052D having a more capable VDS, certainly not in the same way that say, CAPTAS 4 is more capable than CAPTAS 2 given the significant difference in external size between those two types.

 

[Iron Man]

Regarding VDS, do we have any indication that 054A uses a different VDS from 052D? Or different from 056A or even 055 for that matter?

Because we've had photos of 054A, 056A and 052D's VDS, and they all appear to be externally identical in shape and the same size from eyeballing it. In which case I'm not sure if there's a case to be made for 052D having a more capable VDS, certainly not in the same way that say, CAPTAS 4 is more capable than CAPTAS 2 given the significant difference in external size between those two types.

No, the 054A does not have VDS, which is my point. The "054A+" does have this upgrade, but even the 054A+ only matches the 052D's VDS capability and not its magazine capacity, which still makes it inferior. The other point I forgot to mention is that the 052D seems to have a higher maximum speed compared to the 054A, which means that the 052D can cover more area in a shorter period of time, as its sprint time will be shorter relative to its drift time as compared to a 054A, which again makes the 054A an inferior ASW asset compared to the 052D.

 

[jobjed]

Being the most capable ASW vessel in the PLAN is not the same thing as saying the main job of the 054A is ASW; these statements are not identical. But in point of fact I don't agree that the 054A is still the most capable ASW vessel in the PLAN. The 052D is certainly more capable than the 054A at ASW. Its VDS and larger VLS capacity automatically makes it superior to the 054A. The 055 will soon usurp the role of "best ASW" from the 052D with its dual hangars and possibly improved sensors, and of course even greater VLS capacity.

From pop3:

In the PLAN's mission description for the 054A, the first point is "this vessel assumes the primary ASW role in a task force."
In the PLAN's mission description for the 052D, the first point is "this vessel assumes the primary AAW role in a task force."

There is a clear delegation of roles between the two classes. Both are capable of doing the other's job to a decent degree but their designs are optimised for their prescribed jobs.