Aircraft Carriers III

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Again all that is true V22 good for picket carriers with F35B

For flat deck 100,000 EMALS C2 Greyhound

V22 can go faster, longer and quicker than any helo that does not mean fixed wing

Just like V22 AWACS will never beat E2 V22 COD never beats C2

Both have potential which is why C2 should continue for EMALS keep V-22 for secondary role

And apologies I should be saying CMV-22B and EV-22 but easier to call them V-22 :cool:
 
I took a look at what's going in this thread lately, and noticed barking on the wrong tree, maybe several trees, here

(I've been following MQ-25; it's possible to start clicking at Oct 26, 2017 and go back in time):

I think Northrop quit because it couldn't make big enough profit; the context is the margin would be too low (likely in this range:
Jan 28, 2017
very interesting: "Northrop’s operating margins held at 11%, according to the company’s 26 January fourth quarter earnings report. If the USAF trainer competition turns into a price-shootout, as many analysts have speculated, Northrop could damage its tenuous margins."
Analyst floats theory for Northrop CEO's caution on T-X
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) to take the risk UNDER EVER-CHANGING Pentagon ideas, as in
Aug 24, 2016
Sunday at 5:07 PM
until now I thought a tanker aircraft couldn't be a surveillance aircraft but
Navy, Industry Looking for Design ‘Sweet Spot’ for MQ-25A Stingray
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
here's the twist: CNO: New Stingray drone will be a tanker
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, so Northrop said to the Pentagon like "Enough."
in professional words:
“When we’re looking at one of these opportunities, let me be clear: Our objective is not just to win. Winning is great, it feels good on the day of an announcement, but if you can’t really execute on it and deliver on it to your customer and your shareholders, then you’ve done the wrong thing,” Northrop head Wes Bush said during an Oct. 25 earnings call.


another thing is the declared need of an Osprey for transporting an F-35 engine: it probably is just a spin, as ones F-35s become truly operational (I don't mean public stunts with a ship full of contractors), a decade or decades from now, only squared away machines (not the LRIP stuff) will be taken on board as ALIS may even work by then

OK and if an engine got damaged anyway, they'd just leave that aircraft in a hangar (again, in real world situations, not with journalists around)


I'm not going to respond to any comments
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Again all that is true V22 good for picket carriers with F35B

For flat deck 100,000 EMALS C2 Greyhound
You are not I think seeing the big picture here.
The US Navy has operating on it's Big Flat tops today,
  • Marine FA18C/D (F18 is how i will refer to them)
  • FA18E/F/ EA18G
  • C2
  • E2
  • MH60
5 types, Now the Marines and Navy both plan to phase out the Last of the F18 for F35C variants
Then you have the little flat tops
  • AV8B ( to be replaced by F35B),
  • MV22 ( replacing CH46),
  • UH1,
  • Ah1,
  • CH53( to be replaced by CH53K.
5 types again.
Now lets Take a step back to the early 80's
The big carrier air wing was,
  • F14 replacing F4
  • F18 also replacing F4
  • A7 (if not replaced by F18)
  • A6 and KA6 and EA6B
  • E2C
  • SH3H Sea King
  • S3A
  • EA3B
  • RA5C
  • C2A
8-9 types. So what happened? we move the 1990's
  • F14
  • F18
  • A6E and KA6D
  • E2C
  • EA6B
  • S3 and ES3A
  • SH60 and HH60
  • C2R
8 types a reduction of one type
The Navy started reducing the types in the Air wing why? because keeping so many types of aircraft in the Aviation arm of the carrier meant having to store parts and engines for such a huge mix. The NAvy wanted to establish a streamlined logistics plan for it's Air wing so they off loaded mission that off loading first took the form of the FA18E/F Super hornet.
The FA18E/F didn't just replace the F18, it replaced the F14, the A6E, the KA6D the ES3A, with modifications to the EA18G it replaced the EA6B. The MH60 farther phased down the SH60 and HH60 to one variant and took the mission of the S3. The Navy didn't really care that it was not perfectly suited for the new missions, All that they wanted was good enough.
Keeping C2R in the system means keeping a unique type in the mix that has only limited commonality to any other type. Now the same could be said for E2D but the importance and mission type of the E2D is of such a nature that it's mission critical and cannot be matched right now with any other type. Where as C2 is not, even if C2 is perfect, Perfect is the enemy of good enough.


V22 can go faster, longer and quicker than any helo that does not mean fixed wing
No it does not, but That's not the point. If they were really really worried about cargo capacity and speed well.
:D

Just like V22 AWACS will never beat E2 V22 COD never beats C2

Both have potential which is why C2 should continue for EMALS keep V-22 for secondary role

And apologies I should be saying CMV-22B and EV-22 but easier to call them V-22 :cool:
The point of the V22 buy was to remove one uncommon, support type from the carrier air wing by standardizing on a common airframe with the Marine airwing. It will remove the need to keep the older parts and training from the C2R which was based on E2C not the E2D, it eliminate the need to keep systems to support the C2 like the seating pallet in favor of the fold down seats of the V22.
another thing is the declared need of an Osprey for transporting an F-35 engine: it probably is just a spin, as ones F-35s become truly operational (I don't mean public stunts with a ship full of contractors), a decade
Less than a decade given the deployment to Japan last year I am betting F35B will be on the deck of Wasp or America Class Ships by the middle of 2019 in numbers.
or decades from now, only squared away machines (not the LRIP stuff) will be taken on board as ALIS may even work by then
Jura Carriers have hanger decks not to sideline fighters and store them but to repair and maintain them If you sideline a Fighter you sideline that pilot and reduce the mission capacity of the Air wing. The ALIS is to tell the maintainers what is happening in the fighter, it's a Check engine soon light that is supposed to tell you exactly what is wrong. The Air wing maintainers then come in and do the repairs.
OK and if an engine got damaged anyway, they'd just leave that aircraft in a hangar (again, in real world situations, not with journalists around)
now one of the nice things about the F35 Engine so far is it's modular nature. If the engine does have a issue then you can replace the trouble spot but keep what works rather then having to replace the whole thing. Problem with the fans, call in a replacement Fan module.
Against whom?
Whoever comes calling.
An Aircraft Carrier is a massive statement of American military might, any nation who has a bone to pick with the US would love to send one to the bottom of Davy Jones locker. It would be a instant propaganda win and masive gut shot to the US.
The Russians loved to Shadow US carrier groups in the Cold war with Subs as if it came to war they might have a chance to nail a Carrier. I have no doubt that the Chinese in the Pacific try to do the same.

S3 Viking was a jet powered Sub hunter that replaced the S2 Tracker, It was in essence a baby P3 Orion that traded turboprops for jets and could take off from a carrier deck. They also had a variant for ELINT the ES3 Shadow, a Small CODs plane the US3 and even a tested version fitted with a Radar pod that did a jb akin to the JSTARS. When the Navy retired it, the traded off those missions to mostly the P3 Orion now retiring for P8 Poseidon, but those are land based, and the SH60 now MH60 which has shorter range.
Bell_Boeing_SV-22_Navy_ASW_Aeroguide_Special_Bell_Boeing_V-22_page36_810x465_zps87a86e15.png
A V22 fitted with a dipping sonar and radar could drop Torpedos to attack enemy subs either like above from hard point on the side or from the cargo hold via a system akin to the gunslinger a Ramp mounted launcher system on the Marine Harvest hawk, MC130W and AC130J
A podded Radar could be deployed to allow the V22 to serve as a Carrier borne ISR/C2 platform as envisioned below or similarly fitted to serve as a ELINT and SIGNT platform. of course some of these could also be done by the MQ25 concept

V-22-slides-from-USMC-Aviation-Plan.jpg
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The Navy started reducing the types in the Air wing why? because keeping so many types of aircraft in the Aviation arm of the carrier meant having to store parts and engines for such a huge mix. The NAvy wanted to establish a streamlined logistics plan for it's Air wing so they off loaded mission that off loading first took the form of the FA18E/F Super hornet.
The Navy wanted an altogether different thing, and, basically speaking, ending up with a hornet from 1980s-1990s Navy prospective is nothing short of nightmare, which ended up being a reality.
Unification is when you keep key capabilities, not when you are discarding them.
Perhaps as nicely, F-35 won't really bring any of them back.

NAVAIR cared a whole lot about it, just Capitol hill had a different opinion.

Whoever comes calling.
Interesting proposal. Preparing against an elven invasion is also fine.

About as serious.
Threat, which gave birth to necessity to move CSG ASW screen that far is long dead and won't reappear in foreseeable future.
Otherwise ASW isn't really a CSG mission.
 
Last edited:

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Everything about the V22 is true I am not doubting the aircraft I have been following the programme for a VERY long time

But it’s pick over Northrop Grumman is political

What do you think happened over the European tanker deal with USAF, Europe is unable to fullfill the contract ? No

You can believe it or chose not to believe it that is your choice

As for discussing capabilitys that is pointless excercise
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
As for discussing capabilitys that is pointless excercise
If we are talking about Pakistani Navy, it is.

Otherwise it is quite a significant operational factor, because in many ways USN from 1992 could to things, which USN from 2018 just can't.
With emergence of Chinese carriers it's importance shoots straight up to the late 1980s levels, when Soviet carrier fleet with 4/5 gen aircraft was an impending future.

But since these went into a vapour, basically it's the first time since great carrier battles of 1944-45, really.

At this point, key requirements of carrier on carrier warfare return from nothingness. As do other forms of near peer or peer level warfare, where lack of capabilities will get you sunk. Because carrier arm isn't just kind of poor man's airforce.
 
while reacting to
#3162 Jura, Sunday at 5:26 PM
:
Less than a decade given the deployment to Japan last year I am betting F35B will be on the deck of Wasp or America Class Ships by the middle of 2019 in numbers.
let's wait two years, then

Jura Carriers have hanger decks not to sideline fighters and store them but to repair and maintain them If you sideline a Fighter you sideline that pilot and reduce the mission capacity of the Air wing. The ALIS is to tell the maintainers what is happening in the fighter, it's a Check engine soon light that is supposed to tell you exactly what is wrong. The Air wing maintainers then come in and do the repairs.
here just a technical thing: Sunday at 5:26 PM based on (dated Apr 26, 2017; I think I read it last year)

"ALIS 2.0.2 now integrates propulsion data, which allows users to manage the F-35 engine from inside ALIS,
eliminating the need for multiple maintenance systems and field service representatives to assist with engine
diagnostics, analysis and maintenance."
Lockheed Martin Delivers New Capabilities
for F-35 Logistics System
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I meant they would know if the engine is going to need any maintenance during the deployment

now one of the nice things about the F35 Engine so far is it's modular nature. If the engine does have a issue then you can replace the trouble spot but keep what works rather then having to replace the whole thing. Problem with the fans, call in a replacement Fan module.
OK OK let's wait and see
if in the future an engines for example takes in a flock of birds or is roughed up by shrapnels and if they then replace it on board after an Osprey delivers stuff, instead of just leaving the aircraft in a hangar, I'll be proven wrong
 
Top