Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

[SinoSoldier]

I still do not believe that the Chinese military is interested in the FC-31...but you never know what time might bring.

The thing is, Japan has mulled over a dedicated fixed wing carrier a little larger than the Izumo, perhaps wth a ski-jump, that could hold up to 20 F-35Bs.

If they built four of those, and then you add the two Dokdos, and if the Australians ever go to the F-35Bs for their LHDs, and then you add the US ccarriers and the capability of each Wasp class to carry 12-15 F-35Bs and the America class to carry up to 15 -20 F-35Bs, all of that together makes for a very difficult mountain for china to climb.

But China does not need to have more carriers than everyone else...they simply need to have a credible threat...and with the 6 carriers I believe that they will ultimately have, that they will succeed in maintaining that very credible threat so that no one believes that they can (on either side) do whatever they want without a real risk of losing significant vessels in any serious exchange.

I agree that, for the Chinese, the prospect of its neighbors acquiring V/STOL 5th generation aircraft is quite daunting. This is why I think the PLAN will maximize whatever deck space they have to achieve at least some level of parity, which might involve canceling the J-15T and moving straight to 5th generation jets for their CATOBAR carriers (like I've mentioned before) and going for a smaller & cheaper FC-31 derivative as their mainstay fighter.

Of course, ramping up deployment of their anti-access weaponry such as DF-21D, DF-26, and DF-XX isn't out of the question either. Anti-access weaponry, however, is never the solution to all of their maritime problems and remains largely untested in combat.

 

[SinoSoldier]

Its gonna be a poor man's version of a carrier fleet though. IMHO. Frankly if Japan was serious about it, it should have put at least a ski jump ramp on the Izumo.
Right now what Japan has is basically a glorified WW2 carrier. The only saving grace is that China has yet to acquire catapult carriers in significant numbers. Once that happens, the power dynamics in the region would greatly change.

Make no mistake, a "poor man's carrier" with 20 F-35B on board can easily match or even surpass the current Liaoning's or CV-17's airwings given the technological disparity between the two. The Chinese would need to drastically quicken their procurement process for a naval 5th generation fighter.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Make no mistake, a "poor man's carrier" with 20 F-35B on board can easily match or even surpass the current Liaoning's or CV-17's airwings given the technological disparity between the two. The Chinese would need to drastically quicken their procurement process for a naval 5th generation fighter.

Not like that was ever in doubt. China has plenty of options for a 5th gen naval fighter and plans for catapult carriers are already in the works. Japan should not be taking the current situation for granted
In any case I would rather that China take their time with the 5th gen naval fighter, rather than having to go through the same fiasco as the F-35 did.

 

[SinoSoldier]

Not like that was ever in doubt. China has plenty of options for a 5th gen naval fighter and plans for catapult carriers are already in the works. Japan should not be taking the current situation for granted.

Japan has four sizable LHDs in operation: Hyūga, Ise, Izumo, and Kaga, all of which range from 20000-28000 tons in displacement, and all of which are eligible for conversion to F-35-compatible vessels. Combined, they could potentially field an all-5th-generation airwing that is larger than that of the Type 003, assuming that they don't have any more LHD planned for construction. China's carriers, on the other hand, are still years away from fielding an combat capable, much less 5th generation, airwing. The PLAN may have a couple of designs to choose from but it doesn't detract from the urgency of the matter.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Japan has four sizable LHDs in operation: Hyūga, Ise, Izumo, and Kaga, all of which range from 20000-28000 tons in displacement, and all of which are eligible for conversion to F-35-compatible vessels. Combined, they could potentially field an all-5th-generation airwing that is larger than that of the Type 003, assuming that they don't have any more LHD planned for construction. China's carriers, on the other hand, are still years away from fielding an combat capable, much less 5th generation, airwing. The PLAN may have a couple of designs to choose from but it doesn't detract from the urgency of the matter.

While all 4 LHD may have a combined air fleet bigger than the Type 003, it must be remembered that these carriers have a serious limitation. They have no catapults, which will really limit the fighting potential of the F-35B which even though it is a VTOL could really used the added help. The Type 003 can also field a wider variety of support planes to support its naval fighters,courtesy of its catapults. Heck even the Liaoning with its ski-ramp is more suitable for fighter ops than the Hyuga or Ise.
There is a lot more thought that has to be put into a plausible air combat scenario then just pitching a F-35B against a J-15. I would not want the PLAN to repeat the same procurement pains the USN had did with the F-35.
In the end my argument is a such, for big ticket items like LHDs and carriers. If you want one, you should have a proper one.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The concepts for the Izumo class and Hyuga class fit the Sea control ship concept as envisioned by Elmo Zumwalt.

A mix of 3 fighters +14 ASW choppers.
A ramp would be a great addition but I think they want to right now keep the Emphasis on the Helicopter/Vtol capacity for the Hyuga and Izumo classes.
The Japanese I think are looking to partner there ships more as the low side of a High low mix with the USN as the High. Eventually if they choose to however they could use the Izumo class as the basis of a dedicated carrier type. They have all the elements they need for a small carrier.
They just need a Change in laws which, may happen as Tensions in the region continue to climb. There is definitely a push in Japanese pop culture for such.

Kuubo Ibuki by (Kawaguchi, Kaiji the writer of Zigping )About a fictional JMSDF Vtol carrier with F35B.

In there current form neither the Izumo or Hyuga could maintain F35B or V22 without modifications including heat treatments to the landing spots on the deck, and small internal hanger deck space would limit them. The heat treat could be done but the internal space would need more changes.
When compared to An America class LHA which is almost a Carrier in many ways Izumo is wider yet shorter and 2/3 the weight. If they did decide to build a "Ibuki" I suspect It would be a little longer and might have your ramp.

 

[Dizasta1]

Question ... Wouldn't Japanese Navy have a hard time launching and recovering its F-35Bs in VTOL mode. Surely that would have a dramatic effect on the F-35B's endurance (fuel wise). It would consequently mean that the F-35Bs would have to IFR a lot sooner after take off?! Surely this cannot be something that Japan is looking at maintaining on long term basis. Particularly when Abe's govt has shown the intent to expand Japan's military, moving away from the self imposed Pacifist stance.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Question ... Wouldn't Japanese Navy have a hard time launching and recovering its F-35Bs in VTOL mode. Surely that would have a dramatic effect on the F-35B's endurance (fuel wise).

No more so then the USMC or any other Naval F35B user. A rolling Takeoff would be prefered but is not an absolute, and even with it you would still need a Topoff. Additionally Since the JSDF already has V22 on Order those could be used a tankers.

Surely this cannot be something that Japan is looking at maintaining on long term basis. Particularly when Abe's govt has shown the intent to expand Japan's military, moving away from the self imposed Pacifist stance.

If they intend to operate as you describe then they need to expand there capability sets.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Question ... Wouldn't Japanese Navy have a hard time launching and recovering its F-35Bs in VTOL mode. Surely that would have a dramatic effect on the F-35B's endurance (fuel wise). It would consequently mean that the F-35Bs would have to IFR a lot sooner after take off?! Surely this cannot be something that Japan is looking at maintaining on long term basis. Particularly when Abe's govt has shown the intent to expand Japan's military, moving away from the self imposed Pacifist stance.

That is the thing, while alot of people may like to highlight the fact of how amphibious warships like the Wasp can double as a carrier at times. They always seem to forget how much the fighters have to sacrifice in terms of performance in order to operate from those platforms.

In a situation whereby the opponent does not have fixed wing naval aircraft, this is undoubtedly an advantage. However, if the enemy can field a true carrier or even land based aircraft if operating near abroad. One should probably be thinking of switching those VTOLs for something better.

 

[Dizasta1]

Thank you for your replies to my question.

During WW2 Japan had somewhat mastered building aircraft carriers. I wonder whether they would do so in the future. One thing is for sure, a region which had witnessed relative peace and enormous economic and industrial growth. Now seems to be gradually drifting toward uncertainty. If ever there was a time for a genuine effort to bring peace between China, Japan, North and South Korea. Now would be it.

F-35Bs would most certainly be an immediate fix for Japan. But if you'd ask me, it seems more like a knee-jerk reaction, with very few options on the table. That said, Japan does have a powerful navy. Perhaps the best one in the Pacific region, if not, one of the best. Aircraft carriers would be too much of a strain on Japan's economy, which doesn't show any signs of a "strong" recovery.

What I can say is that Japanese Navy is a thoroughbred, it has the experience, the naval might and professional naval officers to take on any challenge.

Hopefully peace will prevail and saner minds (acute shortage of which is in North Korean leadership) would be able scale back the potentially dangerous situation.