Aircraft Carriers III

[FORBIN]

Since they found eighjt personell alive (three missing and most probably decease...almost certainly so, I have to believe that the pilot was able to bring the aircraft in for a fairly level landing on the water.

I am glad the sea state was such that they could or they could easily have lost them all.

I believe Japanese escort vessels out and away from the carrier got their helos there first for the SAR operation.

Just goes to show once again that even non-combat exercises with military equipment is a dangerous way of life and business. Always thank those in service for their countries. They risk their lives often on our behalf, even when not in combat.

Search for Sailors expands in Philippine Sea

PHILIPPINE SEA – Search and rescue operations continue for three Sailors following a C-2A Greyhound aircraft crash southeast of Okinawa at 2:45 p.m. yesterday.

Next of kin notifications to inform families that their Sailors are duty status whereabouts unknown (DUSTWUN) are complete. Names will be withheld for up to 72 hours in accordance with U.S. Navy policy.

Eight Sailors were recovered and transferred to USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) for medical evaluation. All are in good condition at this time.

USS Ronald Reagan is leading combined search and rescue efforts with the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF). Searching through the night, several ships and aircraft covered more than 320 nautical miles as of this morning.

The following ships and aircraft are searching the area: U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyers USS Stethem (DDG 63), USS Chafee (DDG 90) and USS Mustin (DDG 89); MH-60R Seahawk helicopters of the “Saberhawks” from U.S. Navy Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM 77); P-8 aircraft from the “Fighting Tigers” of U.S. Navy Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Squadron (VP) 8; P-3 Orion aircraft of the “Red Hook” U.S. Navy Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Squadron (VP) 40; JMSDF Helicopter Carrier Japan Ships (JS) Kaga (DDH 184) and JS Ise (DDH 182); JMSDF Akizuki-class destroyer JS Teruzuki (DD 116); JMSDF Murasame-class destroyer JS Samidare (DD 106), and JMSDF Hatakaze-class destroyer JS Shimakaze (DDG 172).

At approximately 2:45 p.m. Japan Standard Time, Nov. 22, 2017, the C2-A aircraft with 11 crew and passengers onboard crashed into the ocean approximately 500 nautical miles southeast of Okinawa. The aircraft was conducting a routine transport flight carrying passengers and cargo from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni to Ronald Reagan.

The C2-A is assigned to the "Providers" of Fleet Logistics Support Squadron Three Zero, Detachment Five, forward deployed in NAF Atsugi, Japan. Detachment Five's mission includes the transport of high-priority cargo, mail, duty passengers and Distinguished Visitors between USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) and shore bases throughout the Western Pacific and Southeast Asia theaters.

The incident is under investigation.

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[FORBIN]

OT but more visible here... one other terrible news now it is almost sure the submarine is destroyed with 44 sailors !!! and we think to MirageDriver Guillermo

Chris Cavas‏@CavasShips 22 min
Argentine

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apparently has NOT yet confirmed the deaths of all aboard

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SAN JUAN, although they have confirmed evidence an explosion - this is the latest official statement. Search continues as weather deteriorates

More détails here with very good report from a French blogger
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ce...military-news-reports-data-etc.t6627/page-177

Prayers for them

 

[Jura The idiot]

Wednesday at 9:36 PM

the 7th Fleet again
US Navy Greyhound airlifter crashes in Philippine Sea

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and just the headline now:
Navy ends search for three missing sailors lost in COD plane crash
2 hours ago

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[Air Force Brat]

OT but more visible here... one other terrible news now it is almost sure the submarine is destroyed with 44 sailors !!! and we think to MirageDriver Guillermo



More détails here with very good report from a French blogger
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ce...military-news-reports-data-etc.t6627/page-177

Prayers for them

Yes indeed, prayers for each of them,, hard life, always danger, and to be "lost at sea!", very heartbreaking,, kinda like airplane crashes...

Submarines are awesome, but Western Nuke boats are by far the safest,,, lots of things to fail on a submarine.. I would prolly be OK on a US Nuke boat, but anybodys old diesel/electric,, batteries and sea water don't mix.... the sound they heard was likely the boat exceeding "crush depth", and the incipient explosions.

 

[FORBIN]

Yes indeed, prayers for each of them,, hard life, always danger, and to be "lost at sea!", very heartbreaking,, kinda like airplane crashes...

Submarines are awesome, but Western Nuke boats are by far the safest,,, lots of things to fail on a submarine.. I would prolly be OK on a US Nuke boat, but anybodys old diesel/electric,, batteries and sea water don't mix.... the sound they heard was likely the boat exceeding "crush depth", and the incipient explosions.

Yes Buddy submarines duty is more dangerous than surface ships and BTW submariners are always a pretty different group they win more also for this eventual danger
crush depth you point well TR-1700 can reach 300 m max without danger but crush depth surely to 400 + m depth where it exploded in fact imploded and in this area or she sunk seems 800 m more far up to 6200 m reason battery problems without propulsion he was descending inexorably... !!!

The enclosed places are much more dangerous when a thing going wrong in a submarine it is much more dangerous than in a surface ships

Ofc this tragedy can be in relation with a military budget enough low and maintenance weakness... i have yet see an article. A point is sure SSKs have a lot of batteries and request really such maintenance in more these batteries can be dangerous.
Seems nuclear are more safe surely coz they have 2 systems reactor and one other emergency engine as have CVNs also but for submarine i am not sure replace battery maybe only useful in surface ?

Maybe Obi Obi Wan Russell know ?

But please for remains on topic better here
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ce...s-reports-data-etc.t6627/page-178#post-483522
or
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ssk-diesel-electric-sub-thread-aip-too.t7249/page-18


And i miss Guillermo

 

[Jura The idiot]

it's SinoDefense here so why not to post UK back to"aircraft carrier club"

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The British Defense Ministry recently announced that the British Royal Navy's new aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth will be commissioned on December 7, which will put an end to the 3-year-long absence of aircraft carrier in the British Navy and put the UK back in the "carrier club".

Largest aircraft carrier of the Royal Navy

Queen Elizabeth is the first Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier, which entered water in July 2014. Its sister carrier Prince of Wales is still under construction.

Although it uses traditional power, the Queen Elizabeth will doubtlessly be the main force of the British Royal Navy in the future with its new carrier tonnage record of 65,000-ton full load displacement.

It is reported that Queen Elizabeth has the full length of 280m and maximal speed of 25 knots. It created the new concept of combining "ski jump" deck with electromagnetic catapult, and the F-35B fighter plane can make catapult-assisted take-off (C.A.T.O.). Queen Elizabeth adopts the diesel power system instead of nuclear power system because of inadequate budget.

The new aircraft carrier is able to carry 40 F-35B fighter planes. On amphibious assault mode, it can carry 18 Merlin transport helicopters, six CH-47 Chinook transport helicopters and six AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, or directly carry 25 Chinook transport helicopters.

Air control capability not the goal

Military analysts said that the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier doesn't pursue overall air supremacy but is focused on assault capability.

Zhang Hao, a senior military commentator, said Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier emphasizes ground attack capability and makes ground attack its main combat form. The purpose is to cooperate with the NATO members and execute external operations based on the NATO system.

According to Zhang Hao, in the age of Invincible class aircraft carrier, Britain relied on the type 42 destroyers for fleet air defense, but today the British Navy relies on the type 45 destroyers for air defense. This has been the tradition in the British navy. After WWII, Britain's first-generation Eagle large aircraft carrier relied on the County-class destroyers for air defense, but they were obviously inferior to aircraft carrier in air control capability.

Saving some face

Britain's only in-service aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious was decommissioned in August 2014, and this old maritime power found itself in the awkward position of having no carrier to use. The British Navy only saved some face with the upcoming commissioning of the Queen Elizabeth.

The UK is the first country in the world that designed the aircraft carrier. It used to have a wide range of carrier types, including the Illustrious class, Colossus class, Majestic class and Centaur class, and it occupies a significant position in the world history of carrier development.

According to analysts, the awkward situation of the British Navy is closely related with the continuous reign of the Labour Party from 1997 to 2010. The Labour Party is very passive in building aircraft carrier. During its 13-year reign, the Royal Navy's three Invincible class carriers were decommissioned, but the plan for building new carriers made almost zero progress.

Another reason for this situation is fiscal pressure. Zhang Hao said giving the continuously worsening fiscal situation, the new carrier plan is hard to become reality even if the UK realizes the importance of aircraft carrier. There is even news that the British Navy once planned to shelve the carrier Prince of Wales when it's completed and only keep one carrier in service.

 

[Obi Wan Russell]

it's SinoDefense here so why not to post UK back to"aircraft carrier club"

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Another article written by someone who hasn't done his research beyond chatting with a 'friend' down the pub who, incidentally, was also the first SAS trooper to burst through the balcony window at the 1980 Iranian Embassy siege. When he was 10. Every pub has one. His name is 'Walt' (as in Walter Mitty).

The ships do not of course combine the ski jump with the EMALS, it's very definitely an 'either/or' situation, either you pay through the nose for the EMALS and AAR and redesign a large portion of the ship, OR you just build them to the original design and have enough money in the budget for two ships. But this is old news to everyone here of course.

Regarding the missing Argentine Submarine, it's something that hits home for me, as my older brother was a submariner in the RN back in the 80s and 90s (serving aboard both HMS Sovreign and HMS Swiftsure). He'd be out on patrol for three months at a time with no communication, and when he came home we'd get no prior notice of that either. The sub would return to Guz (Devonport), he and a few shipmates would pile into a single car and drive non stop to our house in the North East (about 500 miles) where they would all dump their laundry for my mum to clean whilst they drank the local pub dry, and finally all collapse unconscious for a day on the floor of our living room. They'd stay for a couple of days before dispersing to their own homes and a few weeks later would all pile back in to the same old car and steam it back to the Base. It took him a day or two to mentally 'decompress' after the relentless routine of life aboard a sub, it's not cushy by any stretch of the imagination. He loved the service life though, and signed up for a full 22 years stint. Sadly a back injury whilst training for the Devonport team for 'Field Gun' put an end to his Naval career. I have no doubt if he had stayed in the Navy he would be a Fleet Chief Petty Officer by now, he was already rising rapidly through the ranks.

So I have every sympathy for the families of those missing aboard the Argentine Sub. When they leave for the sea, you hear nothing until either they turn up on your doorstep, or an officer in full dress uniform does. In the worst of all cases a journalist turns up to break the news. Sailors are Sailors no matter what country they serve, and their families share a common bond.

 

[Jura The idiot]

it's cool, just didn't get this:

... they would all dump their laundry for my mum to clean ...

as I would've thought they had taken off their uniforms (and left them in their base) and put on plain clothes (which were stored in their base while they had been on a sub) before going home LOL but I must be missing something obvious here, am wondering what it is

 

[Obi Wan Russell]

it's cool, just didn't get this:

as I would've thought they had taken off their uniforms (and left them in their base) and put on plain clothes (which were stored in their base while they had been on a sub) before going home LOL but I must be missing something obvious here, am wondering what it is

They travelled to and from the base in civvies, but their everyday uniforms and underwear came home for cleaning! Some items had to be chased around the floor with a club and beaten into submission before they could be washed! Remember the air on a sub is recycled constantly for months at a time and those aboard become desensitised to their own smell (especially when you consider their daily shower included just 30 seconds of water! 10 for wetting down and 20 for rinsing off!). When a sub docks and they pop the hatch the whole base knows about it!

This was back in the 80s and 90s so things might be different now, but certainly back then his uniforms came home with him. I know because I got a couple of shirts from him, blue denim work shirts which conveniently had his initial and surname stencilled on. We share the same initial and surname (he's Rob and I'm Russ) so they worked well for me! In fact here he is in dress uniform at home shortly after his passing out parade in 1986:

 

[Jura The idiot]

They travelled to and from the base in civvies, but their everyday uniforms and underwear came home for cleaning! ...

that would my guess now LOL

as I said, I would've thought they had been issued Navy clothing upon entering the base ... but they just didn't, had to bring their own

for the record: I've never served
LOL!