US Navy MQ-25 Stingray Unmanned Aerial Tanker

[Jura The idiot]

This thread is about the new requirement that the US Navy has opened up for a drone Re-fueling tanker for its aircraft carriers.

Please direct posts regarding that aicraft, the competition for it, and the status to this thread.

What follows are several posts regarding it that had been posted on the X-47B Thread, which has dropped out of the competition and was a completely different requirement.:

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Vice Admiral David C. Johnson

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had to say inside

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article, in the part
The Sting With Stingray

The MQ-25 drone shows that, even if you use the new approach to acquisition, you don’t always get everything you want. As the Navy developed requirements for the unmanned, carrier-based refueling tanker, said Vice Adm. Johnson, it consulted intensively with the four competitors: Boeing, General Atomics, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman, which built the first carrier-launched drone, the X-47.

“The CNO (Chief of Naval Operations John Richardson) personally met with all four… twice,” Johnson told reporters. “When they got the RFP, it was not a mystery.”

When the Navy issued the final RFP, however,

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.

“Personally, Dave Johnson, yes, I was surprised that Northrop decided to back out,” Johnson admitted. “(But) we knew that they were worried about the RFP because we had really tooled it towards the tanker,” designed for long endurance but not high performance. Northrop’s X-47 and its subsequent work had been geared towards the earlier concept called UCLASS, Unmanned Carrier-Launched Surveillance & Strike, which was not a tanker but an attack aircraft. “It would have taken some redesign to keep it cost competitive, performance competitive,” Johnson said.

“It’s unfortunate. We thought they would stay in the competition,” he said, “but… we have three very capable folks still in.” Boeing and Lockheed are of course two of the biggest aerospace companies around, while General Atomics invented the iconic Predator drone. And Northrop Grumman, arguably, is better off knowing that MQ-25 was a bad fit for the company now, before it invested even more in winning it.

Johnson is optimistic about the MQ-25. The Navy will choose a winner by Oct. 1st next year, with the first operational unit (Initial Operating Capability) in 2024. That’s fast for an all-new aircraft, especially a carrier-based one, Johnson said. Once the award is made, though, he thinks the Navy and its chosen contractor will be able to “go even faster.”

 

[Jura The idiot]

Oct 29, 2017

but
U.S. Navy Shrugs Off Northrop’s MQ-25 Snub

Nov 15, 2017

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’s departure from the U.S. Navy’s MQ-25 Stingray competition hasn’t fazed Naval Air Systems Command (Navair), the organization in charge of acquiring up to 72 carrier-based unmanned tankers.

Rear Adm. Mark Darrah, program executive officer for unmanned aviation and strike weapons at Navair, says, “It’s their decision,” and Northrop continues to support the program under a contract for concept refinement that runs through March 2018.

“We’re going to move forward with our strategy,” Darrah said during an interview with Aviation Week at Navair’s headquarters at Patuxent River here. “We’ve got a very robust request for proposals [RFP] and feel we’re in a good position with whoever remains behind to give us a proposal.”

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,

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and

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are still in the hunt for the multibillion-dollar program. The RFP was released Oct. 4, and proposals are due by Jan. 3, 2018.

Northrop would have been a leading contender had the Navy not switched focus from a carrier-based unmanned surveillance and strike aircraft to an aerial refueling platform for topping-up strike fighters.

The company had developed, delivered and flown two prototype X-47B aircraft in support of the former Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike program, but seemed to lose enthusiasm when the Navy instead asked for an MQ-25 tanker to be developed on a fixed-price incentive contract.

Northrop CEO Wes Bush announced the company’s withdrawal on Oct. 25 during an earnings call, saying, “We could not put forward an attractive proposition to the Navy that would represent a reasonable business case for our company.”

Darrah confirms that a down-select to one vendor for MQ-25 is expected by late summer 2018.

The development contract will deliver four aircraft for testing and evaluation. The winner must then prove themselves by delivering the promised capability on time and on budget. If successful, they could receive follow-on contracts for the production phase.

Darrah says the program of record calls for 72 aircraft capable of operating from Nimitz or

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.

“We want to go as fast as we can and get them out there as quickly as we can. We’re incentivizing [the contractor] to do well in the engineering and manufacturing development phase,” he says.

The only two key performance parameters are carrier integration and mission tanking. To qualify, the proposed aircraft must be capable of offloading 14,000 lb. of gas starting at 500 mi. from the carrier.

The Navy says all other design attributes are “trade space” that can be exchanged for greater performance or lower costs in other areas. Secondary attributes previously being considered, like 12 hr. of endurance, were removed. No new development is planned for this aircraft, just integration of mature, existing capabilities, including the government-furnished aerial refueling system (ARS), or buddy store.

The MQ-25 will carry an electro-optical/infrared sensor ball and have space, weight, power and cooling provisions for a potential maritime surveillance radar.

Instead of specifying how many MQ-25s will embark at a time, the Navy has told contractors how many refueling “hoses” it needs for carrier operations.

The service also has provided contractors with a “spot factor” value, the maximum amount of real estate their platform can occupy on the carrier deck, including peculiar support equipment.

Darrah says many of the competitors are already working on advanced prototypes, including flying and non-flying test articles. Based on what the contractors may or may not have already shown the Navy already, he teased that people might see something flying sooner than expected after contract award.

Darrah says the tanker will not carry weapons, but future carrier-based drones might. The purpose of the MQ-25, he says, is to develop an aircraft optimized for tanking that will extend the operational range of the carrier air wing and free up

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for combat missions.

“We want an aircraft design from the start to do that mission,” Darrah says. “It’s about utilizing aircraft in a more efficient way.”

 

[Jura The idiot]

Thursday at 7:50 PM

Oct 29, 2017

but
U.S. Navy Shrugs Off Northrop’s MQ-25 Snub

Nov 15, 2017

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and
The Navy Says "Fly Before Buy" When It Comes To Its New MQ-25 Drone Tanker
November 17, 2017

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The U.S. Navy says it is looking to buy as many as 72

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, which it plans to fly off its existing

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and future

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. But the service will only buy four prototypes of the winning design initially and wants the chosen contractor to then show it can meet the programs demands before handing out any larger production deals. This appears to be an attempt to avoid another "buy-before-you-try" debacle, as has happened with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Earlier in November 2017, U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Mark Darrah, the program executive officer for unmanned aviation and strike weapons at the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) detailed the plans in an

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. At present, Boeing,

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, and Lockheed Martin are still competing for the initial development contract. The Navy wants the three companies to submit their final proposals in January 2018 and hopes to select a single winner by the end of the summer. In October 2017, Northrop Grumman

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that it was withdrawing from the competition.

“We want to go as fast as we can and get them out there as quickly as we can,” Darrah told Aviation Week. “We’re incentivizing [the contractor] to do well in the engineering and manufacturing development phase.”

To do that, the Navy says it will link the winning company’s performance during that phase to whether or not it gets any subsequent production contracts. The service has made it clear it wants the contractor to prove it can not only deliver a design that meets the functional requirements for the MQ-25, but can also do so on time and within the firm, fixed budget laid out for the Stingray program.

This definitely makes a certain amount of sense. There is no shortage of examples in recent memory of major U.S. military modernization programs that have seen significant

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, both in development and operational testing.

The Navy itself has seen the price of its

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grow even as the timeline for their initial entry into service has continued to slip amid continued concerns about jets'

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and the progress of the

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. Unlike the U.S. Air Force and Marine Corps, the service does not expect to declare an Initial Operational Capability, or IOC, for its F-35 variant until 2018 at the earliest.

The main issue with the F-35 program has been the

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, whereby the U.S. military purchased significant numbers of aircraft under the premise that the larger orders would drive down production costs. The planes would then receive modifications either at depots or on the production line "concurrently" as problems emerged and got fixed during the development phase. This has turned out to have been an almost entirely flawed concept and the Air Force and Marines are

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many existing Joint Strike Fighters in order to try and stem ballooning costs.

On top of that, the

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of the MQ-25 program is to take over aerial refueling duties from

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and their pilots. This in turn would both free up those fighter jets for combat missions and provide an opportunity to reduce the strenuous demands on the two manned aircraft. In October 2017, U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Mike Shoemaker, the service’s top aviation officer,

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that only half its Super Hornets were even flyable at any one time and that barely more than 30 percent were combat ready.

“The readiness level for [the Super Hornet] community has been on a declining trend for the last few years,” Shoemaker told members of Congress earlier in November 2017. “We’ve been forced to take risks in maintenance and production and, as a result, our ability to fix and produce up aircraft and therefore train aviators has suffered.”

The Navy also wants the MQ-25 to enhance the Navy's "mission tanking" capabilities in order to help extend the overall combat range of Hornets and Super Hornets. Initially, the main focus of the Stingray program was on less intensive "recovery tanking," which takes place nearer to the carrier itself.

Per U.S. Navy documents the author previously obtained via FOIA, the full MQ-25 “system”

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four drones, a control station linked to the carrier’s existing networks, and modifications to the ships to accommodate the Stingrays and their specific equipment. The initial contract appears to cover one single package. A full fleet of 72 aircraft would cover 18 total systems, which would allow the service to assign one to each of its nine carrier air wings, while holding additional packages in reserve in case of a maintenance issue, the need to deploy additional groups during a crisis, and for training and testing purposes.

As such, slips in the MQ-25’s schedule could delay a key part of the Navy’s plan to mitigate the worrisome and potentially dangerous situation within its Hornet and Super Hornet

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. The service has already made it clear it is

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that make heavy use of mature technologies and commercially available systems and has insisted that any potential Stingray design use its existing Cobham “buddy store” refueling pods in order to speed up work on the Stingray.

But at the same time, there’s no clear indication of what would happen if contractor doesn't deliver during the engineering and development phase. Rerunning the competition, or canceling the program outright and starting over, could only cause significant delays in getting the desired capability to carrier air wings.

And though the prospect of production contracts for dozens of drones would definitely be attractive to any contractor, the Navy’s present plan requires companies to invest a significant amount up front without a guarantee of a future deal. This could help explain why Northrop Grumman decided to opt out of the project and likely refocus its efforts elsewhere, such as its

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or

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. The company will almost undoubtedly reap some benefits of having been involved in the project to begin with and is still getting paid for work on its proposal under an earlier set of risk reduction contracts that each of the four competitors received, which run through March 2018.

...

... goes on below due to size limit

 

[Jura The idiot]

continuation of the post right above:

It’s also unclear whether or not the Navy may decide, yet again, to change its requirements for the MQ-25 at some point in the future. We at The War Zone explored the saga of the Stingray’s shifting mission set, which has morphing from a stealthy penetrating strike and reconnaissance platform to a non-stealthy tanker, in detail many times, some of which you can find

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,

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, and

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. Between 2011 and 2015, the service was

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on the assumption that it would add an unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) to the carrier air wing, before changing course and dropping this requirement entirely.

In his interview with Aviation Week, Rear Admiral Darrah

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that the present requirements call for the drones to have a sensor turret with electro-optical and infrared cameras and provisions for an unspecified surface search radar. When asked about whether the unmanned aircraft would ever carry weapons, the officer said that the tankers would not, but that future designs might have an armed capability.

It is entirely possible that the Navy could trim the overall size of the MQ-25 fleet if it decides to reverse its present course and pursue UCAVs for a second time. Budget cuts and other changing priorities are always a factor, as well. Once again, this means that the winning contractor not only has to put up significant resources without the assurance of production deals to offset those costs, but that they have to do so knowing for sure if the Navy will follow through with a full 72 aircraft purchase order.

It’s worth noting that, so far, only General Atomics has released concept art showing its full proposal, which it derived from its

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. Boeing and Lockheed Martin have only shown more cryptic promotional material focusing almost entirely on the Cobham pod. It is possible that one or both firms could decide to follow Northrop Grumman’s lead and shift resources to other major military contracts and opportunities. At present, Boeing is still struggling to

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tankers to the Air Force and Lockheed Martin remains heavily invested in

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, which could expand soon to include additional foreign buyers,

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,

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, and

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.

"We’re going to move forward with our strategy," Rear Admiral Darrah insisted to Aviation Week. "[We] feel we’re in a good position with whoever remains behind to give us a proposal."

With the deadline fast approaching for the final MQ-25 submissions, the Navy won’t have to wait much longer to see whether or not its plan has paid off and offered an actual an incentive to the prospective contractors.

source:

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[Equation]

Like I said Northrop Grumman X47B was just not the right Bird for this project. It was and is the best option for a carrier launched low observable predator to conduct intelligence gathering and strike missions. A capability the USN is lacking in my opinion and needs for future operations.
It's also something the USAF I feel is lacking in that although the Predator series is undeniably an impressive little drone with some serious teeth, given the changes in proliferation of Air defence systems and potential for more conventional conflicts. The USAF Predators are more likely to face increased attrition rates in future operations.

I'd sudegest we open or move a few posts to a Mq25 thread.

Who knows the X47B might come back some day. It's not like they totally dismantled and completely wiped out the entire program.

 

[Jura The idiot]

according to FlightGlobal (dated 27 November, 2017) NAVAIR studies plugging MQ-25 ground system into carrier ATC

As three companies continue vying for the contract to develop the MQ-25 Stingray, the US Navy is quietly making progress with the design of the carrier-based, unmanned tanker aircraft’s mission control system.

The Naval Air Warfare Center’s Aircraft Division in Lakehurst, New Jersey, is polling industry sources for a vendor that can develop an interface to plug the MQ-25’s carrier- and shore-based mission control station into the aircraft carrier’s air traffic control system.

The request for information released on 22 November is a further sign that Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) is laying the groundwork for the MQ-25 to be ready to enter service by the mid-2020s.

Last April, NAVAIR announced that a demonstration had validated the first software build for the MD-5 unmanned carrier aviation mission control system (UMCS).

The control system is divided into two components, according to the Lakehurst center’s RFI. The MD-5A will be integrated on the navy’s fleet of aircraft carriers, directing the Boeing F/A-18E/F-sized MQ-25 during takeoffs and landings. The MD-5B will be a shore-based control system, using satellite communications to monitor and control the aircraft during the mission phase.

The MD-5A version of the UMCS must integrate with the shipboard air traffic control system (SATCC). The new interface that Lakehurst is studying would translate audio messages from a human air vehicle operator for the MQ-25 into voice-over internet protocol, so it can communicate with the SATCC. The requirements also include a system that can handle classified plaintext data as well as encrypted ciphertext.

NAVAIR released a request for proposals for the MQ-25 development contract in October. Northrop Grumman withdrew from the competition, leaving three bidders – Boeing, General Atomics Aeronautical Systems and Lockheed Martin – still pursuing the contract.

source:

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[Jura The idiot]

Navy expects MQ-25 decision by summer
LOL I assume it's summer of 2018

The US Navy could select the winning bidder to develop a carrier-based, unmanned tanker called the MQ-25 Stingray by late summer, a top acquisition official says.

After releasing a request for proposals in October, three bidding teams must submit responses by early January. The service will spend the next eight months reviewing proposals and expects to make a final source selection by late summer, Rear Admiral Mark Darrah told reporters.

Last year, the navy awarded four risk reduction contracts to Boeing, General Atomics-Aeronautical Systems Inc, Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin. But Northrop withdrew from the competition shortly after the navy released the RFP, saying the company could not execute the programme based on the terms.

As the bidding progresses for the airframe, the Navy continues to develop two more elements of the programme.

Last week, the navy released a request for information for the Stingray’s carrier- and shore-based mission control station. The new interface would translate audio messages from the MQ-25’s human air vehicle operator into voice-over internet protocol to communicate with the shipboard air traffic control system (SATCC).

“People are always focused on the air system part of this,” Darrah says. “There’s three segments, there’s the ground segment, and then the carrier integration segment...we’ve been working on those other two parts of it for the last several years getting that all ready to go, so that when we get that award, we go as quickly as we can.”

The navy’s Stingray programme has seen several incarnations over its developmental lifetime, evolving from the stealthy strike and reconnaissance platform known as the Unmanned Carrier Launch Airborne Surveillance and Strike (UCLASS) and into the Carrier Based Aerial Refueling System, which the navy designated MQ-25.

The service invested more than $839 million into UCLASS until fiscal year 2016, when the navy began risk reduction activities that would transition into the MQ-25 unmanned carrier aviation programme, according to budget documents.

The service budgeted $114 million in FY2016 as the programme transferred to UCA. The navy has $2.4 billion in funding planned from FY2017 through 2022 for system development and demonstration work.

The service has scheduled a design review for the air system portion in 2019 and is planning initial operational capability for the mid-2020s.

source is FlightGlobal

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[Jeff Head]

Navy expects MQ-25 decision by summer
LOL I assume it's summer of 2018 source is FlightGlobal

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I still believe that this is another one of those rediculous decisions coming out of the years of the Obama way of thinking...and all the decision makers he appointed and then that were promoted into positions to do this type of thing.

Heck, we have plenty of relatively young, and still ver servicable S-3A/B air frames sitting in the desert that could do this job without developing anything new...that already are tested out and workable on the carriers and that already have done the refueling mission in the past.

BRING THEM BACK.

The do not waste money on this drone technology for the refueling mission...take it back to the UCLASS which was going along just fine, and had the possibility of (if they had stayed on track) awarding a contract for building that aircraft which would be very useflu to the US Navy right now. and would allow them to further augment and compliment the attack capabilities of the FA/!*Fs and the coming F-35Cs. And THAT is the mission that the carrier are built for in the first place.

Heck the Vikings could be brought back in a LOT quicker and be refueling much sooner than it is going to take to deign this new robot to do the same mission.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Nov 30, 2017

Navy expects MQ-25 decision by summer
LOL I assume it's summer of 2018 source is FlightGlobal

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and in the meantime Boeing offers sneak peek of MQ-25 tanker drone

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Boeing on Tuesday unveiled its entrant into the U.S. Navy’s MQ-25 tanker drone competition, a prototype wing-body-tail aircraft ready to begin tests this month.

So far, Boeing has released one photo of the aircraft facing head-on to the camera, proving that the company has fabricated a prototype and that — as expected — it has moved away from the flying wing design it considered putting forward to the precursor of the MQ-25 program, when the Navy prioritized strike and ISR capabilities for its first carrier-based drone.

“It’s an aircraft with the mission in mind, and we felt confident that the wing-body-tail design was the best for the refueling mission,” said Boeing spokeswoman Didi VanNierop, who added that the company incorporated lessons from its Phantom Ray unmanned demonstrator and other Boeing unmanned aerial systems.

Boeing’s MQ-25 is slated to conduct engine runs by the end of the year at its St. Louis, Missouri, facility before moving on to deck handling demos early next year, the company said in a news release.

During the deck handling demonstrations, the company will take the aircraft to the ramp, which will be marked to the measurements of an aircraft carrier’s flight deck, VanNierop said. There, operators will taxi the aircraft via remote control and move it within the confines of the deck. They will also validate that the aircraft will engage the launch bar of a catapult.

However, the aircraft will not fly during those demonstrations, and Boeing has not set a date for first flight, she noted.

“Boeing has been delivering carrier aircraft to the Navy for almost 90 years,” Don Gaddis, who leads the refueling system program for Boeing’s Phantom Works, said in a statement. “Our expertise gives us confidence in our approach. We will be ready for flight testing when the engineering and manufacturing development contract is awarded.”

Boeing has stoked conversation about its “mystery aircraft” for about a week. On Dec. 14, the company posted a short video of a stationary aircraft draped in a drop cloth on its Twitter account.

“Robust? Check. Ready? Check. Changing future air power? Check it out!” read the caption, which then implored viewers to come back on Dec. 19 to see the plane’s reveal.

Some aviation enthusiasts correctly guessed that Boeing would debut its MQ-25 offering, but others speculated that the new Phantom Works aircraft could be a new version of the Bird of Prey subsonic stealth aircraft, its Phantom Ray unmanned combat drone or even a new collaboration with Aurora Flight Sciences, which the company acquired this year.

Boeing is the first of the MQ-25 competitors to formally show off a prototype aircraft. General Atomics has published concept art of its MQ-25 — seemingly based on its Avenger UAS, which bears a strong resemblance to the MQ-9 Reaper — and has mounted an intensive advertising campaign featuring a rendering of the aircraft.

Lockheed Martin and Boeing have also released concept art of their offerings, but both opted not to show the full aircraft. Instead, the images show the refueling pods of each UAS connected by probe and drogue to a fighter jet.

The Navy issued its MQ-25 request for proposals in October with proposals due Jan. 3, and the company plans to downselect to a final vendor in summer 2018. From there, the service will purchase an initial buy of four systems before deciding whether to continue on with a 72-aircraft buy, Rear Adm. Mark Darrah, program executive officer for unmanned aviation and strike weapons, told Aviation Week.

Competing aircraft must be able to deliver 15,000 pounds of fuel to fighters up to 500 nautical miles away from the carrier.

In October, Northrop Grumman unexpectedly dropped out of the competition — a move that surprised experts who had long held that Northrop’s X-47B was the favorite in the competition, as the company had already demonstrated it could conduct flying operations from a carrier.

Northrop’s departure signaled to some analysts that the Navy’s requirements could favor wing-body-tail designs, not the flying wings thought to be proposed by Northrop and Lockheed.

Phil Finnegan, a Teal Group analyst who studies UAS, told Defense News in October that Northrop’s exit could pave the way for Boeing to be the new front-runner, given the company’s extensive experience in naval aviation.

“Boeing is expected to use parts that are used by the F/A-18 in a bid to keep costs down. It also has considerable experience with tankers since it builds the Air Force tanker,” he said.

Boeing revealed its first prototype for the U.S. Navy's MQ-25 unmanned tanker competition on Dec. 19, 2017. (Boeing)

 

[Jura The idiot]

Dec 19, 2017

Nov 30, 2017

and in the meantime Boeing offers sneak peek of MQ-25 tanker drone

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now noticed
New Details Emerge In Boeing's First Video Of Its Carrier-Based Tanker Drone
January 3, 2018

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and here's that tweet:

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Happy New Year,

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! Our

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proposal is in, and we’re heading back to the ramp with our

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tanker - robust and ready to extend your flight range!

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[don't know how to link here the vid which follows]