Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
You are again avoiding answers: :mad:

Posting a Twitter post is irrelevant especially since it mentions "if this is true that is T-30" since it is not official (just to use Your argument - it could be from anyone written at this embassy) and again You Yourself say "they did research". That's fine and proves my theory that this might be their own losing contender or future prototype of a fifth generation type but why is Your conclusion it MUST be a Izd. 30 even if Salyut lost that competition and the Izd. 30 is build by Saturn??

Come on ... not again posting Russian links, just answering a question.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
He's got no answers to anyone's doubt and skepticism that are presented with a logical progression and backed by evidence. The same reason why Russian forums are filled with fanboys that think Su-57 is super fighter, they have super stealth bomber and space plane Mig-41. Same people who thought J-20 was fake, then J-20 is made of cardboard, and now J-20 cannot fly without AL-31 and uses a PESA radar. If that fails, it's F-22 and F-35 VLO advantages are really not that effective.
 

b787

Captain
You are again avoiding answers: :mad:

Posting a Twitter post is irrelevant especially since it mentions "if this is true that is T-30" since it is not official (just to use Your argument - it could be from anyone written at this embassy) and again You Yourself say "they did research". That's fine and proves my theory that this might be their own losing contender or future prototype of a fifth generation type but why is Your conclusion it MUST be a Izd. 30 even if Salyut lost that competition and the Izd. 30 is build by Saturn??

Come on ... not again posting Russian links, just answering a question.
See what i said "very likey" I never affirmed it is, the twitter since it comes from the Embassy gives some credit of course I know it is not official from the manufacturer, but from another branch of the Russian government.


The possibility it is T-30 is high, but of course the research could have been transferred, any way do not try to push me I am not working for you, this research i do it as a hobby.

Read well what i said "very likely" not it is I will wait eargerly as a good fan boy I am since I am also an aircraft modeller, and a Russophile by nature and a person who loves Slavic women.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Your Slovak Women is again irrelevant.

Just answer a question.... how gives an A.320 at Seattle a hint that Boeing builds the A.320? So the same how does an unknown exhaust at Salyut can be a hint that it is the Izd. 30, which is confirmed build at Saturn and Salyut having lost the T-50's engine contest??

Just a simple question and a simple answer. Not again avoiding an answer ...
 

b787

Captain
Your Slovak Women is again irrelevant.

Just answer a question.... how gives an A.320 at Seattle a hint that Boeing builds the A.320? So the same how does an unknown exhaust at Salyut can be a hint that it is the Izd. 30, which is confirmed build at Saturn and Salyut having lost the T-50's engine contest??

Just a simple question and a simple answer. Not again avoiding an answer ...
First let me say something, I do not want to prove who is smarter, if it is me or you

Second i made a typo, the embassy wrote this
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's Sukhoi Su-57 new generation second stage engine codenamed
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was unveiled to the public for the first time
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What you are asking me i can not prove it is or it is not, that is beyond my ability, but the website and tweeter are enough for me to think 90% it is T-30, if you have your doubts well wait.

By the way by Slavic i did not mean Slovak, but all Slavic people but specially Russians, since Russia has made so beautiful aircraft.

Any way take it easy I am also a great admirer of Germany and I want to be if not your friend at least friendly to you in your value as a human, thus if in any thing i did offend you my since apologies.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Meanwhile the real fanboys are claiming completely ridiculous crap like stealth is often ineffective, F-35 downed by S-200, Su-57 internal bays can carry 6 mraams and 2 sraams. All of that is false or completely unsubstantiated. Can you explain why you don't care about those claims yet call me the fanboy? haha delusional.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
That's a short range missile if we're realistic. Even their sales brochure claims only max 50km range while air launched probably with initial velocity >Mach 1. And this is the longest range one currently in existence for only French approved customers. Hardly going to be shooting down stealth fighters all around the world at >75km are they?
Sales brochure always medium.. for business mainly we don't have in general nice infos we like
But you read anti French fanbois sites :mad: to joke ofc ;)
80 km
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In more detection range depends RCS and radars powers and many types... saying in general average a stealth is detectable to about 50 km less for F-22.

And quite sure the Meteor 100+ km is more close of 200 than 100...

It is partly true what you said, the PAKFA is designed to be more economical, to operate and make, it is designed to be more reliable.

Stealth for starters does not mean it is undetectable, Rafale and Su-35 already have IRST systems that very likely can track F-22 or F-35 in the 90-100 km range.
It is not easy to have exact infos especialy with IRSTs ,

For IRST range you mention she is for detection 145 km for F-35's IRST which is the best with the PIRATE on the Typhoon, Su-57 OLS-50 max 90+ km is less good but to this range your not sure if it is a bandit... so the good range is the identification which really allow to engage an ennemy which is to max for 2 IRST i have mentionned to about 50 - 60 km*, 50 % a difference.
And it is the max when you see the rear ofc frontal IR signature is very reduced...

And if you calculate in comparison with radar detection ranges and ofc radar power différents, RCS etc... IRST allow a range a little superior to radar vs a stealth especialy the F-22 but he have the more low IR signature and very possible even quite sure the range i have mentionned don't worck vs him.

EM radar emissions are the more visible but possible the drivers can use a brief time without to be detected normaly... APG-77 is considered enough discret.

For the the short game /WVR combat the Su-57 is the only one who can pose problems to F-22 eventualy the Su-35 the J-20 is inferior not bad ofc but don't have TVC in more no Winchester and with all problems for engines we wait for the next...

* the first IRSTs on Mig-29/9-12 and Su-27P was capable identified to only 12 - 15 km !
 
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Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The fallacy of your reasoning assumes that Russian aviation industry can produce F-22 like fighter. No evidence points to this being even close to the truth. On top of this, you assume Kremlin propaganda is truth and American propaganda is false. Who has better living standards? Despite their troubles, they are living amazingly well compared to the average Russian, even more so now they have screwed Russian economy with fracking and trade sanctions. So F-35 propaganda automatically false and kremlin propaganda is true. Okay sure. Any plane hit by bird will have problems especially single engined ones. That's true for Chinese, American, and Russian planes. So your inclusion of that as some sort of evidence to F-35's shortcomings is confusing and worthless. There is no concrete proof that USAF 5th gen fighters are significantly more delicate compared to legacy ones. The only people who keep shouting this are the F-35 detractors and Russian chauvinists. The official USAF sources claim otherwise and yes they have an incentive to, but so do these Russians and the typical paid detractors. They have an obvious agenda as well. Is it a coincidence that the official sources have now shut up (they don't have anything to prove since they know the capability of their fighter) and the typical trolls are still at it even now 5 years in, they invent more bs crap that keeps getting debunked. I used to be part of that group, they are convincing but doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
Let's just take this as an example, too lazy to dig deeper.
Comparing fighters by living standards is incredibly comprehensive. Ah, no, it's actually not.
Again, short:
1.science on air combat continuously develop in Russian military institutes and alike, just like in any other country big enough. Perhaps direction is somewhat different, but overall views on "what is 5th gen fighter", "do we need one" and "what we need it for" aren't produced just on forums or by Mr.Putin himself.
Moreover, larger part of these requirements and views dates back to the times if the Soviet Union.
2.Soviet Union knew about stealth. Russia also does. Probably more than guys on forums, because, again, it's military science.
3.fighter was designed to perform a range of given tasks within given conditions.
Design was specifically checked to meet these requirements. If it couldn't meet them even on the drawing board, well, it wouldn't had been started and/or given a "go" to begin with.
4.most of them have no relationship to stupid solo or even group duel between 5th gen fighters whatsoever. But still it's quite an obvious air superiority platform.
5.unrelated, but AFAIC, mig-41 is a real program. Other "details" are mostly fanboish, though.
 
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