b787
Captain
war is a race if the other guy has a better aircraft then i would not buy junk, because war is not Toyota versus Ferrari but weapon against weapon defeat is result of having inferior weapons
China Flanker Thread II
- Thread starter sumdud
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I'm pretty sure that the JF-17 was not designed for the WVR capabilities of the flanker series. It's really not that surprising if you think about it in terms of maneuverability ... and this was a WVR exercise.
vesicles
Colonel
Those countries that cannot afford the top notch weapons still need affordable weapons system to defend themselves against their peers.
I can't believe we are arguing about this. This is such an easy concept. The only explanation is that you are trolling. End of discussion for me. Good night.
We're basically looking at b787's aggressive pro-Russian sentiment, when the JF-17 is a 3.5 generaton aircraft that's essentially a glorified MiG-21. The latest JF-17s have fully upgraded radars, of course, but the difference in diameter size means that the J-11B, even with pulse doppler, is going to outclass the JF-17 BVR.
We also do not know the rules of engagement of the dogfight or the specifics; the JF-17 pilots could have been newbies while the J-11BS could have been top-tier, while the J-11BS might have wiped out the JF-17s in a BVR engagement, where the smaller JF-17, smaller than a MiG-29 or F-16, would be at a gross disadvantage.
We also do not know the rules of engagement of the dogfight or the specifics; the JF-17 pilots could have been newbies while the J-11BS could have been top-tier, while the J-11BS might have wiped out the JF-17s in a BVR engagement, where the smaller JF-17, smaller than a MiG-29 or F-16, would be at a gross disadvantage.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
LOL F-16 can take on F-15, MiG-29 can take on Su-27 and JF-17 can take on J-11. It all depends on who's flying, and as I said, this exercise showed the superior training of PLAAF pilots.
Typhoon defeated 3 F-16 in (I believe) Singapore and F-16 sales are way better than Typhoon sales so I wouldn't worry for China if I were you.
PS. Pakistani F-16 then came and crushed the Typhoons, so yeah, skill of the pilots. Congrats to the PLAAF.
b787
Captain
what pile of of senseless ranting.
If I am Iran and i see JF-17 are wiped out by Chinese built Su-27s, then if I know my potential enemies can field better thing, why i will buy a fighter that cost 3 times cheaper than Eurofighter but can be beaten in rates of 8:1? then i will not go for such aircraft basically i pointed the Bolivia is not happy with K-8s, so tell me why they will go for JF-17s? basically the only export market the JF-17 has is the ultra poor nations that barely can afford 10-15 aircraft at the most.
So yes it is bad publicity, even for Pakistan.
I'd also note that Sinoflankers are not the same as Russian Flankers. The Su-35, demonstrably, is superior to most Chinese Flankers kinematically, but it runs PESA when many J-11 variants run AESA. Typically, the Russians are superior at aircraft design (the PAK-FA, even if it turns out to be less stealthy, is aerodynamically more interesting than the J-20 to say the least), while the Chinese are superior in electronics (the J-20 has EODAS whereas the PAK-FA does not), and Chinese radar developments are at least half a generation ahead of the Russians).
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
LOL That's why no air force would hire someone like you for acquisition decisions. You see aircraft A defeated aircraft B and you immediately call aircraft B a failed piece of garbage. Then next exercise, aircraft B defeats aircraft A! Now what happens? Your brain explodes? LOL
Because, as we've mentioned, we don't know the particulars of the engagement. How well trained were the pilots? Was this a BVR engagement, in which the Su-27s would usually dominate, or was this a WVR engagement? It's trivial for a 4.5 gen heavyweight fighter to detect and fire BVR missiles at a 3.5 gen super-lightweight fighter. Likewise, we don't know the difference in pilot training, a F-16 can beat an F-22 given a sufficient skill disparity.
That said, who really cares about the JF-17? It's essentially a Pakistani project; a super-lightweight fighter whose main raison d'etre is to get Chinese electronics onboard for a low price. Your American equivalent is the fanboy ranting on about the F-16 after it waxes groups of MiG-21s when there's a generational disparity between the aircraft. Now, between the J-10 and J-11, it's a more interesting fight, since the J-10 has an oversized radar for its weight class (middle-weight), and both the J-10 and J-11 have taken home trophies. And of course, Chinese flankers vs Russian flankers is a matter of electronics (better AESA) vs better maneuverability, as well as the possible disparities between Chinese pilot training and Russian pilot tradition.
We don't know what the whole story anyway. The JF-17s probably scored a few victories too but the PLA published the article not to rub their victory in people's faces. Instead, they wanted accentuate the tenaciousness of their pilots in the face of adversity.
The article made it clear that two PLAAF aircraft took off but one had to abort the mission. The remaining pilot had the option to resign the scenario but he persisted and managed to seize an unlikely victory. THAT, was message of the article, not this juvenile bullshit about "hurr durr, Flanker better than Thunder, xaxaxaxa!!!"
Because you're new in this forum, I should tell you that b787 is the new name of a banned member called "mig29" who got banned for consistently posting low-quality garbage. It's against forum rules to remake an account after being banned but the mods seem to be falling asleep for this case. He's a Mexican Russophile who suffers from extreme Dunning-Kruger's syndrome, being unable to understand simple physics concepts like "F = ma" and you really shouldn't take him seriously.
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