Chinese Economics Thread

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
B.I.B. said:
Charging at these charging points can still be frustratingly slow though.70% charge in 30 minutes in comparison with getting petrol which takes me around 5mins.
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Yes. But on the horizon are:

1. Super fast chargers.
2. Self-driving cars. Given that most trips are short duration and distance, self-driving cars will mean an explosion in dirt cheap taxi services. Recharging for 30min between fares won't be an issue.
 
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SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
t2contra said:
So you have everything worked out and countries like India and UK which plan to make EVs compulsory will suffer. How I wish every Japanese engineer were like you.
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Do the math.
How many cars, buses and trucks are running within mainland China?
Take 20% of that figure and multiply that with 7.2kW an average of power required to charge a car at around 4 hours.
How much electricity does PRC currently utilize and how much surplus do you have?
If the peak of demand even for a moment goes beyond supply then there will be a black out.

You should also look at the peak wattage the grid can withstand because if and when demand goes beyond the grid tolerance level again there will be a black out.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
SamuraiBlue said:
Forget charging points, at the moment the total amount of EVs on the road consists of of only 1% of the total number of cars on the road.
If that number grows to even 20% within 5 years the power grid will be completely overwhelmed and black outs will become an everyday event especially during the hot surging days when everyone is blasting their air conditioner while charging their cars at the same time. Power plants do not suddenly grow over night. It takes years to construct and more importantly the grid can only sustain so much energy at one time. Too much power input at one source and will blow the transformers.
Basically you'll need a separate power grid.
I am not limiting this just china but the entire world. The Europeans who announced this first are only kidding themselves if they truly believe they can do it within the time scale they drew up.
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If you own an electric car, charging will mostly occur overnight when the cars are not in use.

And it's a good thing that China is still in the middle of building new cities and the electrical infrastructure along with it.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
SamuraiBlue said:
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The dumb charging situation today doesn't reflect the reality of how charging will actually work in the future.

Electric car charging will mostly occur overnight when the cars are not in use and when there is a surplus of cheap electricity. The dumbest time to charge batteries would be the midday peak when electricity is expensive and the electrical distribution system is being used intensively.

And with widespread EV adoption, parking spaces will come with top-up charging which can be controlled.

The advent of self-driving cars also means that charging time/location is not a factor, as they can drive themselves to dedicated charging facilities, or you just use a cheap taxi service.

And it's a good thing that China is still in the middle of building new cities and the electrical infrastructure required for widespread battery charging
 
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SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
t2contra said:
What if Japan also makee EVs compulsory?
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They won't Japan is at the threshold of electricity supply and demand right now with most of the nuclear power plants off line and required to burn fossil fuel just to make ends meet.
A flood of EVs in Japan right now will finish off that fine balance we are doing now.
The general populous cannot accept nuclear plants going online again and we can't burn more fossil fuel either.
That is why the Japanese government is promoting fuel cell technology. Unlike electricity in which you need to use the amount you generate, you can store and transport Hydrogen from off shores without the need of the grid.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
SamuraiBlue said:
Do the math.
How many cars, buses and trucks are running within mainland China?
Take 20% of that figure and multiply that with 7.2kW an average of power required to charge a car at around 4 hours.
How much electricity does PRC currently utilize and how much surplus do you have?
If the peak of demand even for a moment goes beyond supply then there will be a black out.

You should also look at the peak wattage the grid can withstand because if and when demand goes beyond the grid tolerance level again there will be a black out.
Click to expand...

You can take 100 percent of the figure and still end up with about slightly more than one third of the total power grid. So it's not an impossible thing to do to increase the power grid capacity in the planned period.

No, there will be no black out. The charging station itself will act as a regulator to electricity supply limiting itself to a max electricity input that it's allowed to use at any given time.
 
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antiterror13

Brigadier
Quickie said:
You can take 100 percent of the figure and still end up with about slightly more than one third of the total power grid. So it's not an impossible thing to do to increase the power grid capacity in the planned period.

No, there will be no black out. The charging station itself will act as a regulator to electricity supply limiting itself to a max electricity input that it's allowed to use at any given time.
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It will be total black out if Chinese power system (Grid) was managed by knowledge from Wiki and Google .... if you don't understand what I meant ... ask @SamuraiBlue :p
 
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