PLA Organization & Structure discussion

[FORBIN]

A very reliable watcher in CDF say :

2017.1 Update: The 123rd Mechanized Division is being split up into 2 brigades, 1 is based upon the 369th Mechanized Regiment (see text below), and the other is based upon the 367th Mechanized Regiment. Reportedly the 369th would join the 41st GA's 15th Armored Brigade, and the 367th would form the 123rd Mechanized Brigade.

同叙鱼水情　军地共发展
市领导率队到白台山英雄团驻地慰问官兵

本报讯（记者 陈可夫）1月18日下午，市委常委、政法委书记文建中率市春节拥军慰问团，带着340多万梧州人民的深情厚谊，来到南部战区陆军驻桂部队白台山英雄团驻地慰问，给子弟兵送上新春问候和祝福，共叙军民鱼水深情。

在军地座谈会上，文建中代表市委、市政府向白台山英雄团官兵转达了梧州人民的思念之情和新春祝福，并简要介绍了梧州经济社会发展情况。他说，去年在自治区党委、政府的坚强领导下，市委、市政府团结和依靠全市人民，抢抓机遇、奋力拼搏，坚持以向东开放和改革创新为动力，加快建设立体化交通运输网络，打好脱贫攻坚战，努力完成各项目标任务，实现“十三五”良好开局。希望在新的一年里，白台山英雄团全体指战员一如既往地以梧州为故乡，视梧州人民为亲人，继续关心支持梧州经济社会建设。

英雄团指战员表示，去年白台山英雄团官兵在集团军的正确领导和梧州人民的鼓舞支持下，不断增强战斗力，获集团军评为优秀士官人才培训基地，27名士兵荣获集团军优秀装甲兵称号。按照南部战区战斗编制调整，英雄团近期将编入南部战区陆军某作战旅，移防其他地区，英雄团全体官兵将铭记梧州人民的深切关怀，传承与弘扬“抗洪勇士”精神，在军中争创佳绩。

市领导程权、苏颖、莫永东参加了慰问。

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Yet 2/3 years ago about 5 or more Divisions divided in Brigades , Russians do the opposite have re created about 5 Divisions from Brigades more logic for big Armies all have this structure majority of brigades or Rgts in Divisions and ofc some independent Brigades.

 

[Blackstone]

Looks like PLA is going for flexibility and maneuver, while Russia is reverting some of its troops for classic Soviet sledgehammer with massed artillery and armor. Not sure how reorganized Russian divisions would do against NATO's US and Western European troops, but Poland, and the Baltic states have good reasons to be fearful.

 

[FORBIN]

Looks like PLA is going for flexibility and maneuver, while Russia is reverting some of its troops for classic Soviet sledgehammer with massed artillery and armor. Not sure how reorganized Russian divisions would do against NATO's US and Western European troops, but Poland, and the Baltic states have good reasons to be fearful.

I don' t see what is the problem with Divisions ? as i have say all the more big Armies have majority of her brigades/Rgts in Divisions, Chinese choice are sometimes enough surprising ! or to deceive ...

 

[Blackstone]

I don' t see what is the problem with Divisions ? as i have say all the more big Armies have majority of her brigades/Rgts in Divisions, Chinese choice are sometimes enough surprising ! or to deceive ... View attachment 36181

Given how public China made its PLA force modernization, combined arms transformation, and rank/grade reorganization, I'd say the moves have less to do with deception and more to do with fielding capable and flexible forces that can mobilize and get 'there' quickly with high probabilities of mission success. Going forward, I think we'll see even more of these reorganization and modernization to incorporate strategic air lift and tactical air mobility, and a good signpost to keep an eye on is if or when the PLA incorporates a Chinese veision of the Ospray helicopter.

 

[SanWenYu]

Given how public China made its PLA force modernization, combined arms transformation, and rank/grade reorganization, I'd say the moves have less to do with deception and more to do with fielding capable and flexible forces that can mobilize and get 'there' quickly with high probabilities of mission success. Going forward, I think we'll see even more of these reorganization and modernization to incorporate strategic air lift and tactical air mobility, and a good signpost to keep an eye on is if or when the PLA incorporates a Chinese veision of the Ospray helicopter.

Agree with pretty much all you said except the Ospray part. Why do you think PLA must have it? There are many other ways to achieve tactical mobility within PLA's intended theatre of war.

No doubt Ospray is a good aircraft for its purposes. But IMO China won't be able to build something similar in years. Meanwhile PLA certainly won't stop changing just to wait for some fancy technologies. PLA has learned fighting wars in its own way.

 

[Blackstone]

Agree with pretty much all you said except the Ospray part. Why do you think PLA must have it? There are many other ways to achieve tactical mobility within PLA's intended theatre of war.

No doubt Ospray is a good aircraft for its purposes. But IMO China won't be able to build something similar in years. Meanwhile PLA certainly won't stop changing just to wait for some fancy technologies. PLA has learned fighting wars in its own way.

Vertical lift with near transport aircraft speed provides greater air mobility and more options for mission planners. Ospray-like planes are especially useful in not-short, and not-long distances like Taiwan and SCS scenarios (from the artificial islands).

 

[SanWenYu]

Vertical lift with near transport aircraft speed provides greater air mobility and more options for mission planners. Ospray-like planes are especially useful in not-short, and not-long distances like Taiwan and SCS scenarios (from the artificial islands).

Yes these are the well-known advantages of Ospray-like aircrafts. No deny that PLA would love to have something similar for Taiwan, SCS and beyond. But it is still just nice to have, not critical, for the wars that PLA are prepareing for. Such technology isn't the only one that PLA is missing. It won't the last either. PLA must know how to fight and win without them. PLA's evolution for higher efficiency and effectiveness cannot be counting on fancy technologies.

 

[FORBIN]

The 77th Motorized Infantry Brigade from 26th Army based to Haiyang (Shandong) has been transferred to the Navy confirmed by this pic with soldiers in blue and mainly a specialist on CDF

 

[taxiya]

Looks like PLA is going for flexibility and maneuver, while Russia is reverting some of its troops for classic Soviet sledgehammer with massed artillery and armor. Not sure how reorganized Russian divisions would do against NATO's US and Western European troops, but Poland, and the Baltic states have good reasons to be fearful.

I guess you may already had your reasoning for that different choices. Here is mine to share.

The difference could be due to the different geostrategic situations faced by the two.

Russia has (almost) only one front, her western/south-western boarder, a relatively straight line, relatively flat terrain. Massive big unit work well and effective than smaller unit.

China has more than 2/3 of her boarder (including coast) being unfriendly or unstable. That need mobility when the whole size of land force is kept small. The terrain is much more troublesome than what Russia is facing, that requires smaller sized army unit, the brigades instead of divisions.

 

[Blackstone]

The 77th Motorized Infantry Brigade from 26th Army based to Haiyang (Shandong) has been transferred to the Navy confirmed by this pic with soldiers in blue and mainly a specialist on CDF

View attachment 36384

Humm, the PLA is building up its Marine Corp.