ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Heheh...like any other politician of "great" leader. They lies their you know what off.

The Affordable Heaklth Care Act (Obama Care) was unconstitutional here in the US. It said in its own writing, right in the act itself that it was not a tax. Therefore, it was unconstitutional...but when ruling on it, the Supreme Court justices who favored it, simply called it a tax, just like that, irrespective of what the Act itself said. So, having declared it a tax, they were able to say it was constitutional.

The democrats knew it would never pass if it had been a tax...so it wasn't...until it was!

The same tyoe of thing will happen with this inconvenient Article in the Iranian Constitution.

I don't think much people are concerned in this area by that and not new...
They do anesthesia with guns or clubs :D :rolleyes:

Since decades it is one unstable areas with only bad things ! ... and again this dictator... :mad:
to set out after for Syrian people get really Freedom in same category with the North Korean.

Russians do job but interested, only Coalition and Iraqi legal governement, Kurdes also are in the right stuff.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The question is more of "Does Russia need Chinese support in the said forms".
China is interested in playing an important role in Syria, just like Iran and Russia, but less directly.
China, for the moment, is not looking into the role of direct combat actions for many reasons. So there is really no issues for Russia to not allow.
Even if Russia want Chinese boots on the ground, China may very well be reluctant to do so.

I think there is an understanding between Russia and China, in which China is to be the lead in Eastern Eurasian landmass and western pacific while Russia will be the lead in western Eurasia, and each one will provide assistance in the other region when needed. There is no competition right now. That is the core of the officially defined Sino-Russo relationship "Comprehensive strategic partnership of collaboration"/"全面战略协作伙伴关系.

On a separate note, I would be glad if China can provide intelligence (satellite images, signal collection), logistic, defense equipment, surveillance equipment (UAVs like in Iraq) and communication Equipments. All non lethal as the west has done for the rebels. Another area of Sino-Syrian cooperation is to have Chinese anti-terror and special forces get close to the battle field in Syria to learn first-hand experience, that is the furthest of "boot on the ground" that I can see for the moment which is tricky.

I think the there are more interactions between Syria and China besides the visits of the Generals (Syrian defense minister visited China a while back), some of my wishes above are probably fullfilled already.

The author is very right about the Chinese public altitude towards Syrian crisis. I have not yet met a Chinese inside and outside China who shows any sympathy to the rebel's cause.

BTW, why do you strike through the second half of the texts that is quoted? Is it because you see them being the author's analysis rather than reporting facts? If so, I have no questions further.

My reply to both you and Siege is that if China were to join the fight , it would no longer be a Russian led operation but an SCO led operation.
It would be a very convenient banner for other countries to rally too, perhaps easier for some than simply the Russian banner.
The other side of the coin is that it would be a very high stakes situation for an initial outing and there is always the danger of too many Cooks.
My guess is that Moscow would love the extra diplomatic cover but fear possible negative operational effectiveness. It would boil down to the precise calculation as to which of the two factors are regarded as the most important.
 

delft

Brigadier
My reply to both you and Siege is that if China were to join the fight , it would no longer be a Russian led operation but an SCO led operation.
It would be a very convenient banner for other countries to rally too, perhaps easier for some than simply the Russian banner.
The other side of the coin is that it would be a very high stakes situation for an initial outing and there is always the danger of too many Cooks.
My guess is that Moscow would love the extra diplomatic cover but fear possible negative operational effectiveness. It would boil down to the precise calculation as to which of the two factors are regarded as the most important.
But also it is now a Syrian operation with help from outside powers in contrast with the huge, numerically, coalition led by US.
 
...

it'll be interesting to see how Iranian Propagandists work around

"Article 146
The establishment of any kind of foreign military base in Iran, even for peaceful
purposes, is forbidden."
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...
... so far I was able to find this (I suppose that's the official):
  1. "Iran has not let any country have a base and our cooperation with Russia on regional issues like Syria does not mean that we have given it a military base and we deny any such media claim," ICANA quoted Ali Larijani as telling the Majlis open session on Wednesday.
  2. "Tehran-Moscow cooperation is strategic and we have been sharing equipment and capabilities," Shamkhani told IRNA in response to reports of airstrikes by Iran-based Russian bombers.
(Mr. Larijani is
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Speaker,
Mr. Skamkhani is the head of Iran's Supreme National Security Council,
and source:
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is Iran-based)
 
Is this for real? ...
for me seeing is believing :) but in the meantime, I took a look at
  • what Iran says:

    ISIL Days Numbered: China Joins Iran-Russia Anti-Terrorism Efforts in Syria
    LOL what a headline
    The decision was made after Tehran and Moscow began an intensified air campaign on Tuesday, August 16, against terrorist groups in Syria, in a move underscoring Moscow’s increasingly close ties with Tehran. It also came after a meeting in Damascus between Director of the Office for International Military Cooperation of China's Central Military Commission Guan Youfei and Syrian Defense Minister Fahad Jassim al-Freij.

    To be sure, China has a common understanding in respect of the territorial integrity of Syria. Likewise, China wants to have closer military ties with Damascus. Meaning, Beijing is no longer reluctant to join hands with Tehran and Moscow in the Real War on Terror – in addition to providing humanitarian aid to Syria. Equally, Beijing, which relies on the region for oil supplies, is no longer willing to leave Middle Eastern diplomacy to the other permanent members of the UN Security Council, namely the United States, Britain, and France.

    After all the destruction and chaos these regime changers brought to the Middle East, it makes perfect sense for China to try and get more involved, including sending envoys to help push for a diplomatic resolution to the violence there and hosting Syrian government and opposition figures.

    What's more, China has its own security concerns about violence in the region. China is worried the Uighurs, a mostly Muslim people from western Xinjiang region, and other Wahhabi followers in the country who have ended up in Syria and Iraq fighting for ISIL and Al-Qaeda militant groups, having traveled illegally via Southeast Asia and Turkey.

    So what does all this mean? Well, the strategic decision by Beijing to tap into the Iranian-Russian anti-terror campaign is a game-changer. It was wise and in time. It will boost China’s image as a central player in the running conflict. The growing partnership will also help turn the tide in the terror war, undermining US influence as the main sponsor of “moderate” terrorists in Syria.

    Altogether with China on board, it is now beyond any dispute that ISIL days in both Iraq and Syria are numbered. Thanks largely to the recent military gains on the ground by the alliance of Iran, Syria, Russia and Hezbollah, ISIL as a fighting force is almost gone too.

    This is a huge setback and disappointment for its regional patrons, mainly Saudi Arabia and Qatar. In Syria, particularly in Aleppo, the losses have already been devastating. In Iraq, the terrorist group prepares for the final battle in Mosul planned for later in the year. Here, ISIL has no chance to regroup, much less keep its territory. Russian air power and special operation forces are out in full support of these operations.

    Long story short, in the face of the emerging prospect of an Iranian-Russian-Chinese axis impacting the Syria war, ISIL is finding real trouble at this point. At some point they will have to just give up the idea of having an “American Caliphate”, fight as a small terrorist force, and/or go into hiding and strike soft targets somewhere.
    source:
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  • and what Russians say: "China Rushes To Help Assad"
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    is the top story at gazeta.ru right now, and at first glance the points are pretty similar to the Iranian above, plus possible real-world deployment of Special Forces is mentioned (as those from Russia; USA; UK; France already in Syria) to test their weapons, tactics ... the article is accompanied by this picture:
    chinaarmy-pic905-895x505-69004.jpg
 
Jun 8, 2016
...
just thinking loud, quickly:
it seems almost certain Kurds will encircle Manbij this week, and it'll be interesting to see then if they
and what's happened was Kurds went into urban combat in Manbij, finally won on Friday, August 12 (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...no-oped-no-policis.t6913/page-404#post-409974), and only now are looking toward Al-Bab:
CqCLB5OWgAIlxHM.jpg
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Seriously... China there !
- Can' t be integrated in the coalition's device in more after recent events... !
- Russian also only a limited integration in air operations for security but have usable bases China don't have this possibility.
 
some time ago
Apr 23, 2016
related to what I asked in
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...no-oped-no-policis.t6913/page-362#post-396762
are:

#1 several announcements I now saw of an armistice in
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between Government and Kurds, ...
... and now even "Cassad" says
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today Mr. Assad bombed Kurds in
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(I looked at the area now:
7rJzc.jpg
Qamishli marked; top part: Turkey; bottom-right corner: Iraq)
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Seriously... China there !
- Can' t be integrated in the coalition's device in more after recent events... !
- Russian also only a limited integration in air operations for security but have usable bases China don't have this possibility.
As I have said, I don't think China is going to get that far yet, so everything about China's direct involvement (boot on the ground) is still too early to talk.

That said, however, I don't think what you mentioned above are any issue in the hypothetical scenario of China being there.
  1. Integration to the "coalition". What coalition do you mean? The coalition with west? That will not happen in the foreseeable future, say 10 years or more from now. The coalition that China is going to join will be the Russian-Syrian-Iranian coalition, not the western one.
  2. Usable bases. If China agrees to join at the invitation of Russia, Syria and Iran, don't you think China will naturally use the Syrian and Iranian bases that Russia are using? So no issue either.
I think you should never take the default position that China want to or has to join camp of the west. If you drop that default thinking, everything regarding China will be much easier to understand.;)
 
The difference is between a foreign military base and an Iranian base where Russian aircraft are guests who are provided with food and rest for the crews and ground crew, fuel, weapons and maintenance for the aircraft.
920x920.jpg
well, if the above had been happening north to Hamadan, Iran
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...no-oped-no-policis.t6913/page-405#post-410459
(and I don't know where this was happening, as the source didn't identify the location, but it shows a Russian bomb and a Russian ordnance specialist under a Backfire), it would've been more than guests provided with weapons, don't you think?

EDIT
I knew Soviets had been in Iran twice, now checked the dates:
  1. May 1920 - September 1921
  2. August 1941 - December 1946
 
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