J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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tphuang

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I don't think j-20 program's pace is particularly fast when one considers the development environment appears to have been exceptionally benign for a post cold war fighter program:

1). There is no evidence that the operational requirements or the budgetary environment of the j-20 program underwent any major changes between the first prototype and now to slow things down, as was very much the case with the f-22.

2). There is no evidence the j-22 was required to simulataneously fill multiple muturally contradictory requirements right from the beginning, as was very much the case with f-35.

3). Chinese fighter development probably enjoys higher national priority, and less emphasis on compromises catering to cost sharing with perspective foreign participants, than is common in the post Cold War weapons development environment.

Given these exceptionally benign development environmental factors, I think the rate of progress of j-20 is perhaps par for the course. The original ATF/f-22 was perhaps the most recent large fighter program that, at least before the end of the Cold War, had been expected to enjoy similarly benign development environment. The original f-22 program schedule, from prototype through around 16 development aircraft to initial operational status of production squadron, was only 7 years, significantly faster than what the j-20 program had demonstrated.
It was only the end of the Cold War, a drastic review and revision both of the mission of USAF in general and the role of f-22 in particular, as well as a large budget cut that cut number of development airframes in half, that stretched the schedule to 12 years.

The industrial base at the time of development of F-22 was far more capable than China's at the moment. The only comparable industrial base at the moment to China is Russia and they are having real trouble with PAK-FA.

Also, remember that it took 7 years to go from YF-22's first flight to the first flight of F-22. And 6 years from when YF-22 was picked to the first flight of F-22. Now, CAC design was picked in 2008 and they went from that point to building the demonstrators in 3 years and then to the first flight of preproduction type in 2014. Now, it's probably 3 more years from that point to IOC. So, 9 years from when CAC's design was picked to IOC. Which is more impressive when one considers that CAC did not build a demonstrator like YF-22 when the competition was held, so it had to build the demonstrator and make significant changes from 2011 to 2014 to fix the problems they found in the demonstrator. In the end, delays are common in all major military projects. It's pointless to say what F-22's original schedule was, since they didn't actually achieve that. The point is that J-20 didn't seem to have a real major slip up in schedule up to this point, which is unusual compared to other 5th gen programs. That does not mean there won't be slip ups going forward, but we will have to wait and see.

China ready to pit J20 against Su35 in 2016.

I am quite excited to find out the result.

not really. They serve different purposes.
 

by78

General
I think it's safe to say, this is an AL-31 ... in case some still dream about a WS-10 or even -15 !

View attachment 22188

Here Deino, this is a bit bigger and clearer (from the original photographer):

(1200 x 750)
22970031259_c76987ddaf_o.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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It's quite hard to take this photo. Must be from a professional photographer, maybe an insider

Exactly, in the old days you would have had to "PAN" the fighter following the fighter at a very low shutter speed, to keep the bird sharp, and the grass etc moving and blurred. SO, the Brat thinks its been "worked over" a bit on the processing/editing side?? or maybe it was an "expert photographer"? LOL

Also there is an S following 2011s?? whut?
 

Franklin

Captain
There is just one minor problem with the J-20. And that is the plane still doesn't have its intended engine the WS-15. If the J-20 should enter production in the next few years it will be with an uprated WS-10 or AL-31. The plane will be significantly underpowered. I suppose that the plane will pay for it in terms of maneuverability. Since the J-20 never flown on "full power" so to speak it never shown its full maneuvering capabilities if not speed and there for the plane is in part still untested. And when the WS-15 does become available the J-20 might need a new round of testing and perhabs some redesigning of its software if not airframe.
 
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