Great article with a background story! The clash between two regional superpowers just happened. For the first time since the WWI Turkey comes to the international stage to claim their own. And they could back it up with fire. Nothing else than we can see with PRC in East Asia.
ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
DO NOT GO there on SD, Janjak.
That is advocating out and out war, which is against SD rules.
NATO is an alliance. members have to vote to support another member in conflict.
US, French, and UK aircraft are flying against ISIS. The Russians are not going to start shooting down those aircraft.
cn_habs
Junior Member
Agreed. Putin is bold but far from stupid. We can't say the same about those Turkish leaders who have ordered genocides and are secretly cooperating with ISIS which some NATO members are trying to defeat.
Last edited by a moderator:
janjak desalin
Junior Member
U.S. Backed Moderate Rebels Down Russian Helicopter With a U.S. Manufactured Missile
from:
By on November 24, 2015
On Tuesday morning, the Turkish Air Defense downed a Russian SU-24 fighter jet that allegedly violated Turkish airspace; this required both pilots to eject from the aircraft above Jabal Al-Turkmen (Turkmen Mountains) in the Latakia Governorate’s northern countryside.
Following the ejection from the SU-24 fighter jet by the two Russian pilots, the Russian Air Force sent a search and rescue team via an MI-8 transport helicopter to Jabal Al-Turkmen, where they encountered heavy resistance from the U.S. backed Free Syrian Army (FSA) and their allies from the Syrian Al-Qaeda group “Jabhat Al-Nusra” near the Turkish border (4km south).
As the Russian search and rescue team approached the location of the two ejected pilots, their MI-8 transport helicopter came under heavy fire from the Islamist rebel forces, resulting in material damage to the aircraft.
However, not long after shelling and firing repeated rounds of anti-aircraft gunfire at the MI-8 transport helicopter, the U.S. backed Islamist rebels from the Free Syrian Army’s “1st Coastal Brigade” fired a U.S. manufactured anti-tank TOW missile towards the chopper, downing the search and rescue team near the SU-24’s crash site.
Luckily, soldiers from the Syrian Arab Army’s 103rd Brigade were not far from the crash site; this allowed them to rescue the crew members that survived the crash landing after bypassing the Islamist rebel frontlines in Jabal Al-Turkmen.
Video footage of the TOW attack:
Last edited:
Let me make some things abundantly clear.
Here on SD, there will be:
NO TALK OF NUCLEAR WAR.
NO ADVOCVATION OF WAR, PARTUCLARLY BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NATO.
NO CELEBRATORY OR HUMORUS ATTITUDES TOWARDS THESE OCCURANCES.
NO ANTI-RUSSIAN OR ANTI_US POSTINGS.
In short, observe and comment about the military aspects of this...but leave politics, ideology, conspiracy theories, and advocating for war out of it. Follow SD Rules.
Any more of these things and the thread will be (once again) closed for cooling off.
This is indeed a serious situation, but we are not going to allow it to be a situation that leads to the violation of SD rules.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
Here on SD, there will be:
NO TALK OF NUCLEAR WAR.
NO ADVOCVATION OF WAR, PARTUCLARLY BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NATO.
NO CELEBRATORY OR HUMORUS ATTITUDES TOWARDS THESE OCCURANCES.
NO ANTI-RUSSIAN OR ANTI_US POSTINGS.
In short, observe and comment about the military aspects of this...but leave politics, ideology, conspiracy theories, and advocating for war out of it. Follow SD Rules.
Any more of these things and the thread will be (once again) closed for cooling off.
This is indeed a serious situation, but we are not going to allow it to be a situation that leads to the violation of SD rules.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
Last edited:
Having said the above...situation is serious.
There are numerous ways in which this could go horribly, and perhaps irrevocably wrong.
Let's be serious minded and sober about this, and lets all hope and pray that does not happen.
The Russians are probably not going to order a wholesale attack on any Turkish military base within Turkish borders. Wholesale attacks against Tirkish military bases may force NATO's hand...something which Putin does not want to happen.
He has made progress with France. The UK may follow suit and work with him to eliminate ISIS. That will put huge pressure on the US to also accommodate.
Putin knows this. He wants this. He wants to show the world that he can bring nations together against a common enemy and win. He wants to bolster his position in the world...amongst his friends and those who oppose him alike.
Putin is serious, and he is also a thinker and not rash. He will not needlessly put his military or his nation at risk.
My guess is that Putin will order more fighter aircraft to the battle and escort his aircraft with them. He may order them to look for any Turkish aircraft crossing into Syrian airspace with any profile that might in any way be conceived as threatening and attack it/them in retribution. That's how he will end up balancing the scales IMHO.
Too much else rides on him not over reacting.
He will seek to work with France and the US to establish mutually acceptable rules in the air, and if France and the US are smart, they will work with him to avoid any more of these instances. which means they will all put pressure on Turkey to put a lid on it.
There are numerous ways in which this could go horribly, and perhaps irrevocably wrong.
Let's be serious minded and sober about this, and lets all hope and pray that does not happen.
The Russians are probably not going to order a wholesale attack on any Turkish military base within Turkish borders. Wholesale attacks against Tirkish military bases may force NATO's hand...something which Putin does not want to happen.
He has made progress with France. The UK may follow suit and work with him to eliminate ISIS. That will put huge pressure on the US to also accommodate.
Putin knows this. He wants this. He wants to show the world that he can bring nations together against a common enemy and win. He wants to bolster his position in the world...amongst his friends and those who oppose him alike.
Putin is serious, and he is also a thinker and not rash. He will not needlessly put his military or his nation at risk.
My guess is that Putin will order more fighter aircraft to the battle and escort his aircraft with them. He may order them to look for any Turkish aircraft crossing into Syrian airspace with any profile that might in any way be conceived as threatening and attack it/them in retribution. That's how he will end up balancing the scales IMHO.
Too much else rides on him not over reacting.
He will seek to work with France and the US to establish mutually acceptable rules in the air, and if France and the US are smart, they will work with him to avoid any more of these instances. which means they will all put pressure on Turkey to put a lid on it.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The first 'reason' would be nothing more than an excuse.
It wasn't the Russians who shot down the Turkish Phantom, and the Turks already exacted revenge for that by shooting down two Syrian aircraft, a fighter and a helicopter, inside Syrian airspace.
I had already voiced my belief that the reason the Turks did this is to pre-emptively sabotage any hope of the French and Russians forming a broad based international coalition with UN mandate to destroy ISIS and other terrorists groups operating in Syria. The very same lot the Turks are either turning a blind eye or, or actively supporting and directing.
Turkey is already on the wrong side of history with its support for international terrorism and thuggish behaviour in the region it clearly wants to dominate if not annex outright.
The only reason it had the balls to use such a flimsy pretext to shoot down the Russian fighter is because it is expecting the rest of NATO to stand with it and shield it from the consequences of its own highly questionable actions.
It is a clear and graphic example that without strictly enforced rules and codes of conduct with members, 'defensive' organisations like NATO could easily end up enabling and encouraging irresponsible acts of aggression by members.
The US and other major NATO members should set a clear precedent and example that membership of NATO and US Ally status does not grant you a free pass to do what you like irrespective of international laws and norms, and so you cannot expect the US and NATO to come pay the butchers' bill for you when you are clearly the aggressor and in the wrong.