SamuraiBlue
Captain
It's not my opinion, it's Mistubishi Heavy the manufacturer of MRJ that had done the required profit projection who is talking based on data that they have compiled. A bit more realistic then my personal opinion don't you think?
COMAC C919 - China's first modern airliner
- Thread starter Quickie
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SamuraiBlue
Captain
firstly it is OT (again)
Secondly ... not good being too pessimistic ... with your analogy, nobody would ever challenge Boeing and Airbus ... yes I respect your opinions, but I don't agree.
Remember Samsung vs Sony and thousands other samples
Another OT while I am at it.
Japanese gets more excited when they challenge something worthwhile and something big to defeat. Pessimistic? I believe it's you that is pessimistic. When Sony challenged the Giant US electronics in the 60's they were smaller then David compared to the US Giant Goliath. Same with Nissan and Honda in the early 70's and now Mitsubishi.
You will never ever able to create a legend if you were assured to win, it's these sweat drenching, gut spilling persistence and tenacity saying never stop until we win that really catches the heart of people.
I hope COMAC has the same spirit as well in challenging this firmly established market by the two giants. my two cents.
Thanks ... however IMO any EW-version - if ever - would be IMO more likely similar to the E-7 featuring a Balance-beam-type radar than again a rotodome.
Anyway nice.
Deino
STOP the back and forth about Japanese planes. Mitsubishi, etc.
This is the C-919 Thread. Comparisons to other aircraft in passing are okay...but this thread is now being hijacked by discussions that are largely based on a single comment doing such a comparison being attacked. ridiculed, and put down over and over again, and then the original poster's attempt to defend his comments. The initial post is fine...and one or two reasoned comments about it would be...but the endless back and forth is not.
Later today I will go back and keep the first comment or two and then delete the rest. it will be a LOT of posts.
It is a meaningless argument. Meaningless arguments are against SD rules precisely because they hijack threads like this.
Any more of it will lead to suspensions...consider THIS the warning.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
This is the C-919 Thread. Comparisons to other aircraft in passing are okay...but this thread is now being hijacked by discussions that are largely based on a single comment doing such a comparison being attacked. ridiculed, and put down over and over again, and then the original poster's attempt to defend his comments. The initial post is fine...and one or two reasoned comments about it would be...but the endless back and forth is not.
Later today I will go back and keep the first comment or two and then delete the rest. it will be a LOT of posts.
It is a meaningless argument. Meaningless arguments are against SD rules precisely because they hijack threads like this.
Any more of it will lead to suspensions...consider THIS the warning.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Comac has in the largest civil configuration about what 174 passengers making it roughly equal to the Boeing 737-400 or the 737-800 which maxes out at 188-189 passengers the two are very much comparable. So It's likely that in military roles we can use the 737 to make a guesses.
A common use of the 737 is as a freighter and transport of troops and cargo that are not directly needed onto the battlefield. This also seems likely for the Comac especially since it's likely to be developed as such for commercial use. basically in this role the aircraft is virtually stock, other than military coms systems it might as well be flying for a Airline.
In this same category we can also place potential VIP configurations. not just for the PLA but also for the CCP and potentially export to nations that might want a flying palace for there leader but can't get Airbus or Boeing. (I suspect Kim Jong Un wants one.)
Well in the mode of flying generals the PLA Uses a Airborne Command post version of the 737-300 ( Tail # B-4052) It seems likely to me that with their Expansion over the last decades, They may move to use the 919 as a successor platform with more modern technologies in the Comac hull.
The 737 is the basis for the Wedgetail AEW used by Australia, Turkey and South Korea. So again comparable the question is Balance beam or flying disk. As we know the PLAAF have used both configurations of radar.
The 737 is also the basis of the P-8 Poseidon and this is a potential fo the 919 hull as well however it would require more extensive modification. Poseidon has the potential to fill three roles for the USN that of a Maritime sub hunter, a Electronic warfare and intercept intelligence aircraft and a JSTARS type platform again in the comac we find potential for all three.
Currently there is no Tanker version of the 737, I suspect the same to be true of the 919 due to size constraints. If Comac however did move forward with the 929 concept that might prove a platform for such.
In the end it comes down to doctrine and the PLA's wants. since this is a new bird don't expect any of this till maybe the mid 2020's
A common use of the 737 is as a freighter and transport of troops and cargo that are not directly needed onto the battlefield. This also seems likely for the Comac especially since it's likely to be developed as such for commercial use. basically in this role the aircraft is virtually stock, other than military coms systems it might as well be flying for a Airline.
In this same category we can also place potential VIP configurations. not just for the PLA but also for the CCP and potentially export to nations that might want a flying palace for there leader but can't get Airbus or Boeing. (I suspect Kim Jong Un wants one.)
Well in the mode of flying generals the PLA Uses a Airborne Command post version of the 737-300 ( Tail # B-4052) It seems likely to me that with their Expansion over the last decades, They may move to use the 919 as a successor platform with more modern technologies in the Comac hull.
The 737 is the basis for the Wedgetail AEW used by Australia, Turkey and South Korea. So again comparable the question is Balance beam or flying disk. As we know the PLAAF have used both configurations of radar.
The 737 is also the basis of the P-8 Poseidon and this is a potential fo the 919 hull as well however it would require more extensive modification. Poseidon has the potential to fill three roles for the USN that of a Maritime sub hunter, a Electronic warfare and intercept intelligence aircraft and a JSTARS type platform again in the comac we find potential for all three.
Currently there is no Tanker version of the 737, I suspect the same to be true of the 919 due to size constraints. If Comac however did move forward with the 929 concept that might prove a platform for such.
In the end it comes down to doctrine and the PLA's wants. since this is a new bird don't expect any of this till maybe the mid 2020's
without going to details, I want to bring some questions up regarding the matter of Comac get a share in the commercial aircraft market.
Boeing and McDonard were in the market well before Airbus. Did they block Airbus from entering the game? They probably did, and FAA certification was probably used as a card. But today, Airbus has about half the share. Why this can not happen to COMAC? I don't find a reason. Besides technology matters, Airbus has government backing and European market as a bargain chip. COMAC has government backing and a big market too.
Boeing and McDonard were in the market well before Airbus. Did they block Airbus from entering the game? They probably did, and FAA certification was probably used as a card. But today, Airbus has about half the share. Why this can not happen to COMAC? I don't find a reason. Besides technology matters, Airbus has government backing and European market as a bargain chip. COMAC has government backing and a big market too.
Maybe this would be a good plane candidate to be developed into a Chinese P-8 equivalent platform. For the armed forces' own use they could substitute for their own components. Might need to domesticate the engine too lol.
b787
Captain
Airbus and Boeing are only two names, the reality is far far more complex, Airbus and Boeing are not different from Embraer, they are international companies, these aircraft in many ways are made by companies in both sides of the Atlantic.
To put you an example, Aernova is a Spanish company it builds parts for different aerospace clients ranging from Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer etc etc, Honeywell for example designs and build parts for both Airbus and Boeing.
Airbus and Boeing are only assemblers of the parts, they do not make everything by themselves, same are jet engines, to give you and example, ITP is a Spanish company that designs and builds the turbine fans for Rolls Royce jet engines, they design and build those parts in several countries ranging from Spain to India or Mexico.
C919 is not different, the Question is and always has been how independent COMAC can be, in my opinion, the C919 has few advantages and weaknesses as a program, they have sold 500 aircraft, that is really good, the problem is they sold the aircraft mostly to themselves, i do not think China`s aerospace industry will implode, but i think its major Challenge will be sold 100% made Chinese jets, i do not think it will happen, since all airliners have a lot of political strings attached.
What i am trying to tell you is if in Europe they buy Boeing they are buying European made aircraft parts, and vice versa, the Americans buy american made aircraft parts in Airbus aircraft.
Many countries buy aircraft based upon political alliaces, C919 is a political example, it is only mainly bought by Chinese government owned companies, basically the Chinese are following a Soviet Style model