052/052B Class Destroyers

[by78]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Test ship 891 with type 348 AESA radar and the new, universal VLS.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

16 cells on a test ship.

Must be some serious testing they're doing out there.

 

[no_name]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Also looks like the maximum they have room for.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I would have sailed with much more peace of mind if I had been ensured by an engineer who deisigned the ship I'm on so sure about what he says... 101% safe...

I'm pretty sure @panasian pointed out a real weakness that's been analysed by much more knowledge advanced in modern weapons systems people than any of us here. And I think he hit the real case of so many of us aren't aware about. A real threat pointed out on some Internet forum that's actually 'real'.

Actually, the so called blind spot that panasian is referring to is literally on the frontal few degrees of the bow of the ship, and the fact that both the ship and any potential target will be moving, and the fact that the ship can orient to face any incoming targets, the blind spot really is quite negligible.

I think what he raised was an interesting point, but a bit of logic I think we can say with some peace of mind that any obstruction of the type 730s frontal firing arc is practically insignificant. If the ship could not maneuver, and if cruise missiles tended to come in from the frontal aspect then his concerns might be a little more valid.

In this case, they clearly thought the slight loss in frontal firing arc was worthless enough that any structural redesign of the ciws platform was insignificant.

 

[no_name]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Main gun is facing forward and those may have dual purpose capabilities. Or if really need be just prioritize frontal targets to be taken out by VLS at longer ranges.

By previous logic a 054A would be even worse off as she would not have a frontal facing CIWS at all!

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

^ this.

That applies of to ticonderoga class too, whose phalanxes are placed similar to 054A and even more inboard, leaving the frontal and rear aspects almost completely blind.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Its a traditional naval weakness, look at navy ships from any era and the same until you hit trireems of classical Greek and Roman periods then the ram was the main weapon of battle. If you think about it there is only one ship class that had equal fire power across all her sides. The American Union Monitor class ironclad of the 1860s. That was because her main guns were turreted in here singular Turret that pulled double duty as her deck house.

 

[joshuatree]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

...Using the 056 as an example again, clearly the PLAN is capable of building something more advanced, more powerful, and which can fulfill more missions. But by going with proven components, a less capable platform overall, and therefore a cheaper design, not only can it be built quickly but also in more shipyards. The modifications made to the 056s post-commissioning seem like they should have been obvious to professional ship designers such as covering up the stack so why wasn't it done in the first place? I think it is because the ships were funded by economic stimulus which was "use it or lose it". Of course they would still spend it on something they need and has decent performance for what it is, but the whole thought process would have given more weight to budget and timeliness (therefore proven technology) and who is getting the order than otherwise....

I don't think the 056 is a meaningful comparison. While we have plenty of fans here hoping the 056 could be more (I admit I was one of them), the 056 program was clearly designed to be an economical, general purpose, patrol vessel. So using proven components made sense. And given the supposed number to be produced, churning them out fast was a requirement. None of the major mods like the smokestack or bow modification happened post-commissioning.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

... Also, as mentioned, the idea of a threat coming in from the frontal angle in the tiny volume of the blind spot can be so easily mitigated just by orienting the the ship a fraction port or starboard, so it is actually the easiest solution.
Most missiles will tend to seek and come in from the side as well, given that is where the largest RCS is. That is why many ships (including 052D) now have forward and back ciws designed to be turned both at port or starboard to put maximum fire in either direction if necessary.

...

Some ideas for AShM mission profile programmers

 

[nemo]

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Some ideas for AShM mission profile programmers

That's assuming a missile can turn sharply enough to exploit that opening.