2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Piotr, your post was not on topic.

1st, the title of the article itself reveals it for the propoganda it is. The US and the West are not "enslaving" other countries.

2nd, your own opine at the end with issues that are completely off topic, about a Polish Car Factory, which can only inflame this discussion, and has nothing to do with this situation in the Ukraine.

You have already been warned once about this in this thread. You are now receiving a one week suspension.

FOLLOW MODERATROR INSTRUCTIONS

Dizasta1, Shen was already warned about the Neo-Nazi arguements and disussions on this thread HEREhttp://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mem...ws-views-photos-videos-3-6796.html#post272484.

You are now being warned in a similar fashion.

The Neo-Nazi angle is miniscule, is propoganda, and discussions regardng it (on both sides) are off-limits. They lead to pure ideological arguements, name calling, high emotions, flame baiting, and a breakdown in discourse.

Do not respond to this moderation on the thread.

Folow the rules. Stay on topic. Do not inflame (on either side) the situation or suspensions will be forthcoming and the thread will be closed.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Listening to the people of the Crimea you get the impression that whilst most do NOT want to be part of Russia they also want more freedom from the rule of the new government in Kiev. From what I have seen on the news, the people in Crimea seem to fear the new Kiev government just as much as they do a takeover by Russia. Western support in favour of the Ukrainian interim government is apparently not encouraging a compromise between the Russian occupied territory and the remainder of Ukraine. This will probable be resolved in the next month but (I my opinion) whatever is agreed to will be uncaring about the consequences for the ordinary citizen.

There was a line in the movie ‘Remains of The Day', which went; “International affairs should never be decided by Gentlemen amateurs". I hate to see the America and EU leadership look ridiculous. Reagan, Thatcher and Chancellor Kohl would never have let this come to pass. I fear that if we let Putin get away with this there will be greater trouble with him in the future.
 

delft

Brigadier
Listening to the people of the Crimea you get the impression that whilst most do NOT want to be part of Russia they also want more freedom from the rule of the new government in Kiev. From what I have seen on the news, the people in Crimea seem to fear the new Kiev government just as much as they do a takeover by Russia. Western support in favour of the Ukrainian interim government is apparently not encouraging a compromise between the Russian occupied territory and the remainder of Ukraine. This will probable be resolved in the next month but (I my opinion) whatever is agreed to will be uncaring about the consequences for the ordinary citizen.

There was a line in the movie ‘Remains of The Day', which went; “International affairs should never be decided by Gentlemen amateurs". I hate to see the America and EU leadership look ridiculous. Reagan, Thatcher and Chancellor Kohl would never have let this come to pass. I fear that if we let Putin get away with this there will be greater trouble with him in the future.
Do you prefer trouble with the current "government" in Kiev? Or with its backers?
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Do you prefer trouble with the current "government" in Kiev? Or with its backers?

Listening to the people of the Crimea you get the impression that whilst most do NOT want to be part of Russia they also want more freedom from the rule of the new government in Kiev. From what I have seen on the news, the people in Crimea seem to fear the new Kiev government just as much as they do a takeover by Russia. Western support in favour of the Ukrainian interim government is apparently not encouraging a compromise between the Russian occupied territory and the remainder of Ukraine. This will probable be resolved in the next month but (I my opinion) whatever is agreed to will be uncaring about the consequences for the ordinary citizen.

There was a line in the movie ‘Remains of The Day', which went; “International affairs should never be decided by Gentlemen amateurs". I hate to see the America and EU leadership look ridiculous. Reagan, Thatcher and Chancellor Kohl would never have let this come to pass. I fear that if we let Putin get away with this there will be greater trouble with him in the future.

From what I've seen on t.v. it says the Crimean peninsula has a population of about 2 million people with 58% are pro Russian. The pro Russian side really do come out in numbers to support the Russian troops there.
 

hlcc

Junior Member
From what I've seen on t.v. it says the Crimean peninsula has a population of about 2 million people with 58% are pro Russian. The pro Russian side really do come out in numbers to support the Russian troops there.

I think its 58% are ethnic Russians. Though I doubt 100% of the ethnic Russians are Pro-Russia, a very large % of them probably are pro-Russia given the complete government incompetence & corruption & lack of economic development in Ukraine for the past 2 decades.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Guy's I have to Apologize Last night I lost my cool, Lets see if I can clean this up.

First, The Ukrainian Situation is fluid, But as a people the people of Ukraine have the right to change there government.
Viktor Yanukovych can no longer view himself as president of the Ukraine He gave up that right the moment he fled the Country. Had he fled to eastern Ukraine He might be viewed as attempting to rebuild and retake the nation, but by leaving the country and fleeing to Russia He and the Government he once Represented have given in.

Second Putin is being a opportunist. He is claiming that the standing government in Kiev is illegitimate. That the people of the Ukraine have no right to change there Government. that this is against the Ukrainian Constitution. Yet at the same time he is defending the Ukrainian Constitution he is claiming that the Crimea has every right to declare it's union with the Russian Federation violating the same Ukrainian Constitution.

Third, A state who declare's it's independence and union with a Foreign power, well under the occupation of that foreign power. can and must be viewed Questionably. like a king who signs the articles of abdication with a gun to his head. the state must be viewed as under duress. If the Crimea wishes to cede form the State of Ukraine it Should petition the government in Kiev and ask for a referendum, That is the proper manor. This has not happened and will not as the Crimean Parliament has taken either via there own will or Force to the opinion of Moscow.

four, the Primary Russian Claim as to why they resist is that they argue that Under a NATO membership ( none having been offered), The Ukraine would host a American Military base. However the 2004 and 1996 Ukrainian Constitutions Article 17 Forbids Foreign bases on Ukrainian Soil. In fact a literal reading of said article raises Questions to the Russian base in Sevastopol.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Guy's I have to Apologize Last night I lost my cool, Lets see if I can clean this up.

First, The Ukrainian Situation is fluid, But as a people the people of Ukraine have the right to change there government.
Viktor Yanukovych can no longer view himself as president of the Ukraine He gave up that right the moment he fled the Country. Had he fled to eastern Ukraine He might be viewed as attempting to rebuild and retake the nation, but by leaving the country and fleeing to Russia He and the Government he once Represented have given in.

Second Putin is being a opportunist. He is claiming that the standing government in Kiev is illegitimate. That the people of the Ukraine have no right to change there Government. that this is against the Ukrainian Constitution. Yet at the same time he is defending the Ukrainian Constitution he is claiming that the Crimea has every right to declare it's union with the Russian Federation violating the same Ukrainian Constitution.

Third, A state who declare's it's independence and union with a Foreign power, well under the occupation of that foreign power. can and must be viewed Questionably. like a king who signs the articles of abdication with a gun to his head. the state must be viewed as under duress. If the Crimea wishes to cede form the State of Ukraine it Should petition the government in Kiev and ask for a referendum, That is the proper manor. This has not happened and will not as the Crimean Parliament has taken either via there own will or Force to the opinion of Moscow.

four, the Primary Russian Claim as to why they resist is that they argue that Under a NATO membership ( none having been offered), The Ukraine would host a American Military base. However the 2004 and 1996 Ukrainian Constitutions Article 17 Forbids Foreign bases on Ukrainian Soil. In fact a literal reading of said article raises Questions to the Russian base in Sevastopol.


Well, I said it once and I'll say it again, well reasoned and written post lad, your Momma would be proud, and your Daddy would "bust a gut" smiling, good job, and for general information, I would never support a Nazi or Neo Nazi anything, I hate thuggish or totalitarian kreeps of any color or stripe, I hate genocide, I detest any government, club, or entity that would enslave, torture, or oppress any man, woman, boy, girl, or Fetus, as our little song says, red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight, most of you smart folks can finish it for me, if ya have any questions I live in Central Obamastan, come see me, I'll fix ya a steak and baked potatoe, and pour ya a glass of Illinois Cellars Velvet Red, and we can solve all the worlds problems.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
[video=youtube;lIZ7P3JABYs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIZ7P3JABYs[/video]

Here's an excellent interview on the practical, economic issues that the EU would face if they support the Kiev government, something already unpopular with many EU, especially German, citizens
 

Rutim

Banned Idiot
Just to clear out what 'fascism' meant in Soviet propaganda and why it's Putin's 'beloved' word and how you should read it when it's used in pro-Russian or Russian medias. I'll write that just to clear this thing out.

'Fascism' in Soviet vocabulary meant not only the idealogy by which we all understand that word in the Western world but it meant any anti-Soviet movement after the war which didn't accept Soviet rule in Eastern Europe countries or in USSR itself. If they called somebody as 'fascist' it meant more or less the same as thing as 'reactionist', someone who opposed Soviet idealogy and authority. Hence, you had 'fascist US', 'fascist West Germany' etc after the war. In short - it has nothing to do with 'fascist' idealogy per se - it means 'those who oppose the only rightful rule'.

I just saw Yanukovych using the word 'fascists' used today so as you can see even though the USSR is long gone this part of Soviet propaganda is still alive and kicking today. So keep that in mind when you read it coming from people like Yanukovych or Putin.
 
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