East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Status
Not open for further replies.

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Racist country tend to become fascistic. There's real fear Japan one day will become a facist country. The current administration of Japan being lead by a right winger Abe is a closet facist. I hope the liberals and left wingers in Japan wakes up and do something about Abe. The need for strong opposition to Abe before he do much more damage to Japan. Already they ramshod Japanese secrecy bill and plan to cover up much more dastardly activities detrimental to average Japanese.

Fascist is a word with a specific meaning, not just a general curse word to apply to any government we revile.

Depending on how you define fascist, it may or may not be true that all fascist states have adopted particularly racist policies by the stamdards of their eras. Conversely, few, if any, non fascist states are entire innocent of racist policies.

Unfortunately, I think china is by no means one of the most racism-free countries in the world, although it may be one where racism is least recognized and tackled. I've met many people from china who can refuse to share an elevator with a black person during one minute, snicker at a philipino the next, and deny they or their fellows are guilty of the least hint of any racism whatsoever the third.
 
Last edited:

Rutim

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Nice try with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, but whether Japan has used a fishing boat or any other type of ship to ram Chinese vessel is irrelevant to what I have said. Essentially, what I said is that China is copying American and Japanese actions. Since these actions being copied are attempts to shoehorn China from Pacific, Chinese actions naturally look like attempts to shoehorn others from areas considered to be Chinese privilege interests.

And for your information, Japanese vessel rammed unarmed fishing boats from China (and Taiwan), not the other way around.
What are your arguments? Look at this - Chinese fishing boat ramming Japanese CG vessel near Senkaku - Japanese territorial waters! Move is justified. Japanese had probably full right to open fire on this occasion. Here's how Japanese vessel rammed unarmed and peaceful, defenseless poor Chinese fishermen... don't believe in everything what's written in Chinese press...
[video=youtube;sVVM2AmvD5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVVM2AmvD5U[/video]​
No. It is not more and more isolated for China. China was isolated to begin with, and what has been isolated already cannot be isolated further.
Who left Japan that it made it 'isolated' now?
It is actually the opposite. All those countries you have mentioned are showing that they very much care, given the fact they all sent in aircraft to try out China's new ADIZ. These countries care very much care precisely because China is powerful enough to affect others activities in the ADIZ if China chooses to do so.
Affect in what way? They can't 'affect' those countries not breaking international laws...
What ROK would do is entirely irrelevant. By creating an ADIZ, China will now be able to feed Japan and US their own medicines. Other countries are welcome to challenge China's ADIZ, as that will give China a justification to challenge theirs. That's the victory China has achieved here.
lol, nice talk about 'medicines'. What's the victory in a fact that it changed nothing?
LMAO! An ADIZ is not limited only to 2000 feet above the sea.
???
 
Last edited:

xywdx

Junior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

What are your arguments? Look at this - Chinese fishing boat ramming Japanese CG vessel near Senkaku - Japanese territorial waters! Move is justified. Japanese had probably full right to open fire on this occasion. Here's how Japanese vessel rammed unarmed and peaceful, defenseless poor Chinese fishermen... don't believe in everything what's written in Chinese press...

We've been through this before, the Japanese CG wouldn't have gotten rammed if it didn't want to get rammed.
 

Scyth

Junior Member
(Small attempt to steer the topic back to ADIZ)

A couple of pages ago, the question arose was whether the PLAAF had intercepted aircraft in the way like the Western and Japanese airforces do.

One member highlighted the fact that the Chinese MoD only said that they scrambled fighters and "identified" aircraft, while another member said that semantics could play a role here because of the intention to make it sound less dramatic. Another point was raised whether an interception with a distance between the fighter to the unknown aircraft of 10m and 10km would make any difference. This last point led me to suggest that the infrared sensor of the Flanker family may help them to intercept and identify aircraft at ranges longer than 10 meters.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

What are your arguments? Look at this - Chinese fishing boat ramming Japanese CG vessel near Senkaku - Japanese territorial waters! Move is justified. Japanese had probably full right to open fire on this occasion. Here's how Japanese vessel rammed unarmed and peaceful, defenseless poor Chinese fishermen... don't believe in everything what's written in Chinese press...
[video=youtube;sVVM2AmvD5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVVM2AmvD5U[/video]​
Who left Japan that it made it 'isolated' now?Affect in what way? They can't 'affect' those countries not breaking international laws...lol, nice talk about 'medicines'. What's the victory in a fact that it changed nothing????

Yawn, look at your own video and note the wake of the Japanese CG ship. It is abundantly clear to anyone without nationalistis blinders on that the much larger and faster Japanese CG ship deliberately cut across the path of the Chinese ship in a dangerously close manner which ultimately caused the collision.

Don't believe everything that is written in the Japanese press.
 

kroko

Senior Member
Man, this thread is becoming too political.

I think that until we get news that china intercepted something on the ADIZ (something that they havent done so far), we are going to be talking politics here.
 

Franklin

Captain
Looks like Japan turned to the UN for support on China's ADIZ. It's probably a good gambit to internationalize the issue as much as possible. On the other hand, it's hard for Japan to maintain its "no dispute" fantasy when all they do is dispute.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Wrong move on the part of Japan and her allies. There is no international law that regulates ADIZ and if they were to declare China's ADIZ illegal then all ADIZ's around the world will be Illegal including Japan's own. For them this move further risks to legitimize China's ADIZ.
 
US is not the peace maker in this case.

if it were really a peacemaker, first it would gone back and public and say that it made a mistake in transferring the administration of rocks back to Japan. Second. would not encourage japan by saying US-Japan Alliance covers a territory Japan has clearly has a dispute on, while at same time saying that it is neutral in this dispute. If you lend your buddy the a gun and promise to come to his aid if he is in trouble, while same time saying you are not in his argument with his neighbor, is, by all stretch of common sense, a bald face lie. And it should called so, and subsequently lose all of its moral high ground in this case.

A peace maker does not intimidate one side while give the other side a blank check grantee. a good peacemaker would absolve itself of all interest in the dispute (in which clearly US in this case is not the case because preserving a strong japan vs a weak china is clearly in US short term interest, hence all the bullshchit about Preserving the Status Quo, which a code word for the current absolute and supreme dominance of Western Pacfic air and sea space by the US-Japan Military Alliance ), a TRUE peace maker would go back to the merit of the issue, and judge and act base on the merit and merit alone not politics. Clearly US is not in the condition to do so. Simply the echos of NSC-68 and Dean G. Acheson's famous speech at the National Press Club on 12 January 1950, which was seen as putting Taiwan and South Korea outside of US defensive parameter, would prohibited US from even a slightest waiver in its position less it is seen as analogous to the historic "Appeasement"... So sadly, Chinese aspirations would suffer instead, and merely a delaying of inevitable would ensure. simply put it, US-Japan is writing checks its grandkids would not be able to cash...

The Core of the problem is that, it is trying to preserve its own disproportionate interest vis-a-via a power in Asia by preserving its alliance with a country governed by the most notorious nationalistic government since 1945. by doing so I found it very hard to convince history that It is doing the right thing. It has let go of all but thinnest veils of universal values covering a grotesque body of naked national interest and may be even racial hatred.

P.S.
I would find it surprising that all the media lynching of china on this issue lately is not with out an active spin by the US government or interest groups in and around it.

You made it sound like Washington's just born yesterday with no track record, no state interests, no domestic internal turmoil of polarizing views.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
1) The Philippines told the US military to get out, and we complied.

As of 2012, a U.S. military contingent of 600, including Navy Seals and Seabees are stationed "indefinitely" in the Southern Philippines, in a declared non-combatant role to assist the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

2) North Korea stick it to us every chance they get. We throw words back at them.

The United States of America has 28,500 US Army, Navy & Marine combat personnel deployed in the Republic of South Korea. USA military has 7 bases in South Korea which houses the 7th US Air Force, 8th US Army, CNFK (Commander Naval Forces Korea) and MARFORK (Marine Force Korea).

4) Japan conducted secret meetings with North Korea without informing the US.

Japanese attempting to gain some sort of semblance with the lunacy that is North Korea, isn't something that America could oppose. Cuz if it did, then that would be truly be concrete evidence of American hegemony.

5) Japan whitewashes WWII history and say they were victims and not aggressors. We let them get away with it.

Hmm ..... lets see, Japan - a country which invaded foreign lands, pillaged and plundered China, Korea and Philipines for many years and America - the only country who used Nuclear Bomb to mass murder the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Not really a lot to argue with here!

If America's govt turns the other way when Japan tries to hide away its criminal, genocidal acts of the past. That isn't something to claim as non-hegemonic approach by American govt. It's like a criminal chosing to ignore or overlook another criminal's acts of wickedness!

On the same note, just yesterday, it was reported that Britain just wiped out all colonial records of the countries which were attempting to gain independence from the British Imperial Empire, back in 1940s.

Wonder what they wanted to hide from everyone?!

6) We tell Israel to stop building settlements on the West Bank, and they build even more.

I'm sorry ...... you don't tell Israel to stop building settlements on the West Bank, you just let them do it, since majority of your US Congress, Senate and White House is lobbied by Israelis and pro-Israeli Americans in Washington!!

If you really did want to stop Israel from building settlements in the West Bank, then the American govt would halt all military aid to Israel, enforce economic/military sanctions on Israel and have the UN troops deployed in the West Bank. But that is NOT what the American govt wants at all.

I'll say this as politely as I can ..... stop pretending to care for the Palestinians, because the TRUTH is that you don't care at all if Israel demolishes every Palestinian home in the West Bank and expels all Palestinians into the Sinai Desert.

7) The US drew a red line in the sand on chemical weapons in Syria. Assad used them anyway. Assad is still in power, with military backing from Russia and political backing from both Russia and China.

US govt drew the "Red-Line in the sand" and then acted as if there was no red-line when Russia deployed 10 Navy Battle Ships in the Mediterranean Sea!!

I mean come on, do you really think that the American govt would want to tangle into yet another war? And that too with a country like Russia?

8) US got the UN to impose sanctions on Iran, but many nations ignore some of the sanctions. Even our supposed friend and ally France (you might be right if you say France was never our true ally).

France was the country which helped Americans gain independence from Imperial Britain in 1776.

Is it me or you seem to have forgotten your own country's history?

France is also the country which gifted America it's symbol of freedom, i.e Statue of Liberty. If it wasn't for France, then America would've been what Canada is ..... an ever grateful country serving Her Majesty the Queen of England!

And FYI, France is also the country which walked out on the Geneva talks on Iran, because it didn't agree with lifting of any sort of sanctions, imposed on Iran.

Get you facts straight why don't ya!

9) NATO countries (if we could be a hegemony anywhere, this is it!) routinely tell us where and when we could hold military exercises. Our main battle tanks are not allowed in some towns and cities.

There are 69,000 US military personnel in Europe, with 20 US military bases in Germany alone. What does that tell you about Europe? Are they (Europeans) incapable of defending themselves? Does the European Union have little confidence in Euro military hardware?

Or is it that US military is still in Europe (almost 70 years after WW2 and over 20 years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union) because it wants to be in the continent, not because it is needed there!??

The bottom line is the US is a regional hegemony in the Western Hemisphere, but not a global one, and definitely not in Asia.

US Military presence, according to regions around the world:

Europe - 70,000 military personnel
Asia Pacific - 80,000 military personnel
Middle East - 20,000 military personnel
Central Asia - 60,000 military personnel


Still think its not a global one?!!

Of all countries in the world, the Middle Kingdom is the only one that can achieve hegemony in Asia. China knows it, the US knows it, Japan knows it, Taiwan has already bent knees, and South Korea isn't far behind.

The middle kingdom? Is that outta Lord of the Rings?

I say again, the US isn't a hegemony in Asia, and we're not trying to be one.

If you add up Asia Pacific and Central Asia, the total military presence of US is 140,000!
 
Good point on Xi Jinping as economic/market reformist.


More good points.


No question personal liberty in China is a fact, but try and voice decent on Tien An Men massacre or on falun gong and see how fast the gestapo throw you in jail. People in China are more free than ever, but there are still things the Red Emperor wouldn't let you say in mass media, and churches you can't join.

Agreed with the both of u on these
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top