East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

[port_08]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Now we have a lot of fighter jets flying there between CADIZ and JADIZ. Korean ADIZ tiny bit overlapping? US is also flying bombers in there. So it will be pretty crowded I guess

Any airliners flying over the area, will need to response to several hailings and need of responses. They have to response to the Korean, Japanese and the Chinese fighter jets less they be blown out from the sky.

How the hell would any nation military know where they are flyng from and to where?

Probably, the PLA radar see masses of dots going here and there...and maybe some miscalculation happen.

Who knows, Taiwanese jets may need to takeoff into the zone as well.

Boeing planes can be masked as bombers and spy plane.

So there could be incident of jets flying to close for comforts. Maybe some trigger happy dude or what.

Not sure what happen when both Japanese Jets and Chinese Jets meet in the overlapping zone and a passenger airline flying in between....a standoff.....missile away....

 

[PanAsian]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

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This NY Times graphic shows practically all the ADIZs over the East China Sea. If this graphic is accurate note that Japan's and Taiwan's ADIZs actually overlap a little. Does anyone know how long this has been going on and how Japan and Taiwan handle their overlapping zones?

 

[port_08]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

The way I see it, these "man-made" crisis is good for the military industrial complex.

You see military clamoring for more budget to improve their navy and for these ADIZ case, the PLA Air Force are also shouting, hey give me some of those budget as well. So planes like J-20 and other project can be expedited.

Without the proper hardware, how can you expect PLA to "defend" against foreign intervention and "aggresion" ?

Ships like the type-055, Liaoning training, J-20, jet engine development all need to quickly fast develop.

Japan is increasing budget, and so is US Navy asking for more budget.

All these incident, are good excuses for each country to ask for more $$$$ to improve and ready to fight "local war under highly informationalised" setting

Anyone losing the technological battle and budget will lose the war...

 

[Schumacher]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

.......................=== commentary ===
This whole media broohaha about Chinese ADIZ makes me sick as a aviation professional and as a decent rational thinking human being. one can not but wonder at the un-ethical-ness of this near mass lynching of China in the media.
yes, I used the word Lynching, because this is exactly what it is, a mass Lynching with-out the ropes by the school yard's Bullys and their friends, who are doing it now because they can and they know they can't do it later.

yes, china is but a scrawny teenager on the world's stage. but Eventually it will grow up to be bigger. If this is what china gets treated now, one must wonder what will china do when it "grows up", bullied teenagers usually don't make a good adults...

That's why I'm amused when some suggested PLA should have done this or that to make a better media spin. The western media have already decided on their story, little China can do to out-spin them especially on their home turfs & ultimately the resources can be better spent elsewhere.
There's a Chinese saying/joke that goes something like 'you can't win against the shameless'. China just don't need to play their games & focused on its own plans.

 

[joshuatree]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

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This NY Times graphic shows practically all the ADIZs over the East China Sea. If this graphic is accurate note that Japan's and Taiwan's ADIZs actually overlap a little. Does anyone know how long this has been going on and how Japan and Taiwan handle their overlapping zones?

Since 2010 when Japan unilaterally changed it.

 

[Engineer]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

This is great news, the more news coming out regarding South Korea, Japan or USA ignoring China ADIZ rules, the more convenient later on for China to do the same. I think this is one of the advantages of setting up ADIZ for China. Let's show to the world how hypocrite Americans and their allies are.

China ADIZ and Japan ADIZ
View attachment 8716

That would be the main purpose for which China set up an ADIZ. Any violation that US and Japan do in China's ADIZ, China will now do the same to ADIZ of both countries. Any criticism raised by US and Japan, China can now apply the same criticisms on both countries.

 

[cirvine11]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Opinion-China's new ADIZ is intended to establish a new status quo and begin to shoehorn Japan and the USN away from, what Beijing considers, an area of privileged interests. The last two years of very close and very tense encounters in those waters and air space tells that tale.

China is attempting something very risky... and perhaps not totally thought through. What does the end game look like? It's hard to see how Beijing comes out on top in this.

In fact, I think Beijing has committed an "own goal" here... and needs a way out. The arrival of Vice Pres Biden may provide a means to deescalate the situation.

There is only one wrong choice here... and that is for China to continue down this path.

It is true that Washington has some fairly ambivalent feelings towards this island issue. However, let there be no confusion, if there is firing-Japan is a treaty ally. Look at our history. It should be clear. Do not fire on US allies. The results will be swift and decisive. That is not bluster or ego nationalism. It is just the way it is.

I have deep respect for China and the Chinese armed forces. I also respect China strategic thinking. That is why I am totally bewildered by the chips the Chinese have staked with such a weak hand. Unwise.

BTW-to claim this is just another ADIZ like any other ADIZ is a farce. Clearly, this is a provocative act... in an area of high military tension. If Beijing did not understand this... they should have. I'm sure they do now.

 

[xiabonan]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

As a fellow Chinese, I totally do not think China should take aggressive measures such as completely barring flights entering China by JAL. This is unreasonable and irrational behaviour regardless of international reputation. International reputation is still important, that's why China gave out huge foreign aid during Mao's time when her own people are starving, that's how we got back to the UN because African nations voted for it. The world is not just US, Europe, and Japan. The world is a much larger place with 7 billion people and well over 200 countries. There are people we need to win over.

Secondly, there are many ways to deal with air carriers that do not comply with ADIZ rules, such as JAL. You can always send out a few unarmed military aircrafts to intercept and take a few pictures, what will the passengers feel when they see military aircrafts? You can always make them wait in the line in order to land, well, it's for "identification purposes" since you didn't submit the plan. Waiting time is subject to authority's order and how busy air traffic is. Fuel costs will greatly increase and it will never be on time for their flights. Maybe even randomly select some flights and force them to land at a nearby military airport for "identification purposes" before allowing them to head to destination. At the same time announce in English, Chinese and Japanese to the passengers that because "you have chosen an air carriers that chose to not comply with Chinese authority's regulations over its ADIZ, therefore we are sorry to tell you that additional measures have to be taken before you can head to your destination. Choosing air carriers such as China Eastern which already complied with the rule will be spared of these troubles. We apologize for any inconveniences caused."

There's always ways you can play around with it. Even for those flights who just pass through the ADIZ. Air carriers need to do business, they need to make money, they need customers, and it's already increasingly hard to do so today because of high fuel costs and world-wide economic recession. They are very very cost sensitive. Just a few economic measures will likely be enough to make them comply with the rules.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

[QUOTE=SampanViking;256808]Nothing exists in isolation and the ADIZ is just a part of much bigger picture. Again I remind people that the Pacific is the only direct frontier between the worlds two largest and rival powers. While Oceans may appear huge, in Geopolitical terms, they are none existent, because they do not constitute territory and cannot be controlled. In that sense, the border of the balance of firepower between the two nations can only exist in one of two locations. Either it is 12 nautical miles off of the East Coast of China, or it is 12 nautical miles off of the West Coast of the Continental USA. Currently it is 12 nautical miles off the Chinese coast and as long as the 1st Island Chain holds, will stay there. Anything therefore that threatens the integrity of the 1st Island Chain is a serious threat and must be countered in some way.

The ADIZ is a threat as it allows China to normalise and formularise an ever greater degree of control over this area. It also opens the door for the PRC to openly declare the Diayou as Chinese Territory and to declare an Air and Sea exclusion zone around. Of course an ADIZ is not necessary for China to make such a declaration, but it does potentially represent the first of a number of salami slice steps that make doing so easier to achieve.

So why is China doing this. Well it is pushing at the the border that is the most critical to the US and while it has little realistic hope of changing the status quo in the Pacific for the foreseeable future, it does force the US to reinforce its position both politically and militarily and such reinforcements will come at the expense of other deployments in Asia and the Middle East, which are areas that China is far more interested in expanding into across land and where its influence is already becoming marked with the return and creation of Silk Roads old and new.







Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, you young man get the prize of the day, your first paragraph put the primary thesis of this whole argument in black and white, with a quote I used during our last presidential election with a daughter who was a dyed in the wool Ron Pualine. and that was that "our border actually begins twelve miles off the Chinese coast". Those who practice isolationism like the US did prior to WWII, will inevitably find themselves drawn into a conflict, where our allies and friends will need to be joined in order to defend their way of life, and we will be lacking as we were at Pearl Harbor. We will and we must engage those who threaten our freedom to life, liberty, and happiness, domestically and abroad. We have NO desire for territorial expansion, or to force others to our own unique brand of government, we will however protect and defend those who are allies and share our love of individual liberty, and respect OUR way of life. Others make false statements accusing us of "forcing" our way of life on others, we do not, we will not!

Now sadly many of the policies of this present regime, do attempt to control and intimidate others, "specifically, drone attacks in states where we have been asked to cease and desist with those attacks", in fact our own freedoms in this Republic are threatened, "specifically, by the individual MANDATE, in the unaffordable care act". NOW, I did not include this last statement to be political, but in the interest of honesty, NO the United States are NOT PERFECT, NO I am not blind to her failings, YES, I do honor the good will and sovereingnty of ALL NATIONS, but I reserve the right to condemn those acts and policies which are contrary to our liberty. Air Force Brat

anyway, great post Viking, brat

 

[joshuatree]

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

.....
It is true that Washington has some fairly ambivalent feelings towards this island issue. However, let there be no confusion, if there is firing-Japan is a treaty ally. Look at our history. It should be clear. Do not fire on US allies. The results will be swift and decisive. That is not bluster or ego nationalism. It is just the way it is. ....

Let's just not go there with the history statement. It's full of slippery slopes and contradictions.