East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

[tphuang]

this is exactly the type of thread that never goes anywhere.

 

[Jeff Head]

US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

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WASHINGTON—A pair of American B-52 bombers flew over a disputed island chain in the East China Sea without informing Beijing, U.S. officials said Tuesday, in a direct challenge to China and its establishment of an expanded air-defense zone.

The planes flew out of Guam and entered the new Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone at about 7 p.m. Washington time Monday, according to a U.S. official.

Over the weekend, Beijing said it was establishing an air-defense zone covering disputed islands that are claimed by both Beijing and Tokyo but administered by Japan. The islands, the source of growing friction in the region, are known as the Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan

U.S. defense officials earlier had promised that the U.S. would challenge the zone and wouldn't comply with Chinese requirements to file a flight plan, radio frequency or transponder information.

The flight of the B-52s, based at Anderson Air Force Base in Guam, were part of a long-planned exercise called Coral Lightning. The bombers weren't armed and weren't accompanied by escort planes.

But the routine flight took on new significance with China's weekend announcement, and it counters Beijing's attempts to strengthen its influence over the region. China had warned that aircraft that don't comply could be subject to a military response.

The establishment of the new zone was certain to have been approved by Xi Jinping, China's new leader, who became military chief at the same time as taking over as head of the Communist Party in November last year, analysts and diplomats said.

They see the move as part of a long-term strategy to try to gradually change the status quo in the East China Sea, and make it increasingly costly for Japan to enforce its claims, without ever crossing the red lines that might provoke an actual military conflict.

But some analysts now believe that China might have overplayed its hand by angering not just Japan and the U.S., but South Korea and Taiwan—both of which have air-defense zones that overlap China's—and several other countries that have territorial disputes with China in the South China Sea.

The U.S. official said that China didn't make contact with the B-52s as they flew over the islands. The planes returned to Guam after the exercise.

"The planes flew a pattern that included passing through the ADIZ," the official said. "The flight was without incident."

Calls to China's foreign and defense ministries went unanswered.

U.S. officials said they believe they had to challenge the ADIZ to make clear they don't consider the Chinese move to be appropriate. But they said they don't believe U.S. flights over the island will create a military conflict.

The White House said the territorial dispute between China and Japan should be solved diplomatically. "The policy announced by the Chinese over the weekend is unnecessarily inflammatory," White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters in California, where President Barack Obama was traveling.

"These are the kinds of differences that should not be addressed with threats or inflammatory language," he said.

China is now requiring aircraft flying in the region to register their flight path with the Foreign Ministry, identify their transponder and their radio frequency. Col. Steve Warren, the Pentagon spokesman, said the U.S. wouldn't comply with those requirements.

"The United States military will continue conducting flight operations in the region, including with our allies and partners," said Col. Warren on Monday, prior to the B-52 flight. "We will not in any way change how we conduct our operations as a result of the Chinese policy of establishing an ADIZ, an Air Defense Identification Zone."

Col. Warren said the U.S. didn't agree with China's decision to establish the zone, and the U.S. wouldn't comply with it while flying over the disputed islands. "We see it as a destabilizing attempt to alter the status quo in the region," Col. Warren said.

Qin Gang, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman, told a regular news briefing earlier in the day Tuesday that China's new zone wouldn't affect regular international civilian flights, according to a transcript on the Foreign Ministry web site.

Asked if China would take military action against aircraft that didn't comply with its demands in the zone, Mr. Qin said: "It was written very clearly in the announcement. With regard to the question you've asked, the Chinese side will make an appropriate response according to the different circumstances and the threat level that it might face."

China's Defense Ministry said Saturday that the Chinese military would take "defensive emergency measures" against aircraft that didn't obey the rules in the new zone. It didn't specify what those measures would be.

China's official Xinhua news agency announced earlier Tuesday that the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, was making its maiden voyage to the South China Sea, where China is also embroiled in territorial disputes with its neighbors.

The Liaoning left its homeport of Qingdao in eastern China on Tuesday and was being escorted by two destroyers and two frigates to the South China Sea where it would conduct training exercises, Xinhua said.

A Chinese Defense Ministry spokesman said Saturday that China was planning to establish more ADIZs, and many analysts expect one of them to be over the South China Sea, where China's claims overlap with those of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

 

[bd popeye]

Re: US military news thread

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Wow. ^^^. I wonder what the Chinese response will be if these missions continue? The Chinese stated they would not tolerate violations of that airspace..

Another thing both Nimitz & George Washington CSG with complete air wings are operating in a area just west of this zone.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I'm a little confused at the phrasing of this.

The Chinese ADIZ doesn't restrict foreign military flights -- it's not a NFZ. US B-52s can operate however they wish, but at a certain distance into the ADIZ they'll be intercepted by Chinese fighters.


Just like how the Alaskan ADIZ doesn't mean the Russians won't fly in with Tu-95s to test the US response rate.



They make it sound like some great politica coup of a move

 

[Franklin]

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

This is a storm in a tea cup. The media is sensationalizing this incident.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I'm a little confused at the phrasing of this.

The Chinese ADIZ doesn't restrict foreign military flights -- it's not a NFZ. US B-52s can operate however they wish, but at a certain distance into the ADIZ they'll be intercepted by Chinese fighters.

Just like how the Alaskan ADIZ doesn't mean the Russians won't fly in with Tu-95s to test the US response rate.

They make it sound like some great politica coup of a move

Well, in some ways it is clearly more of a political move. The Chinese want to exert more influence over the disupted territory. They thought that this ADIZ would help them do that.

But the US is not going to play along with those requirements. The ADIZ as detailed by the PRC requires that any non-regular civilian flight file a flight plan and inform the Chinese of their transponder codes and frequecies.

The US has said no in a very direct way, both verbally, and now, a day later, physically. I expect in the areas right over those Islands, where the Japanese have been administering the islands and flying their maritime patrol aircraft for over 30 years, that the Japanese will also now clearly say no.

But the fact is that the US did it first, and that was probably by desing, even though this was a planned flight. they did not cancel or alter it and used it to make thge US the one who took the lead.

This also gives the PRC a way to more gracefull back down. I expect that if the PRC now uses the ADIZ as a "buffer" zone, to identify any aircraft flying an agressive flight path aimed at the Chinese mainland, and then only intercepts those aircraft at a pre-determined distance well within the zone, that things will stay calm.

However, should the Chinese up the ante and begin deploying AWACS on each end of the Zone, with multiple flighter patrols within the zone (all of them on a 24x7) basis to try and truly enforce the whole zone...then there could be trouble. I hope that does not happen, and really do not expect it to because the cost and tempo the PRC would have to maintain to enforce such a large zone strictly at such distances from the mianland would make it pretty cost prohibitive to me. It's the kind of a thing you exert over a much weaker opponent, or in a time of war. neither of those exist in this case..

Here on SD, to avoid the otherwise likelihood of national fervor on both sides resulting in calls for enforcing the zone completely on one side, or in terms of responding with military force against the zone on the other, lets try and focus our efforts on a defensive nature of the ADIZ, and the opportunity the PRC has to avoid a direct confrontation with Japan. IOW, lets avoid talk of direct military confrontations. If the Zone becomes a buffer for true protetction of the mainland only, then there would little need for escalation.

Anyhow, that's my advise. Otherwise the forum members on both sides of this could easily work up quite the lather over it.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Yes, I agree that the B-52 flights are a political move.

My question is in regards to semantics, I suppose. China has requested foreign aircraft activate transponders, and give flight plans etc, and of course the USAF is free to ignore these requests.


Does ignoring those requests constitute a "challenge" to the ADIZ?

Similarly, does flying in bombers also constitute a "challenge"?

Putting this another way, do Russian Tu-95 flights into the Alaskan ADIZ also constitute a challenge per se? The situations are not very different.



--

And I appreciate the need to avoid overly nationalistic discussions on this topic.

 

[kroko]

First US incursion in new chinese ADIZ: no reaction from china

Its a pity that the ADIZ thread was closed. This is a interesting development: a long-planned flight of USAF B-52 over the new chinese ADIZ. There wasnt any military or political reaction from china. I wonder if this ADIZ is more political than pratical.

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[TerraN_EmpirE]

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

So if it doesn't effect military or civilian then who does it effect? Batman? Aliens from the planet Krypton? Big Bird?

 

[chuck731]

Re: First US incursion in new chinese ADIZ: no reaction from china

I think it was obvious even if it were not for the Senkaku crisis upon which US credibility in the west pacific indirectly hangs in balance, that the US was never going to concede any air rights over a region in western pacific where it formerly had total unrestricted air rights, without some very large commensurate concessions from China.

It was a major blunder for China to have declared the ADIZ. It was a bluff that predictably would be called. China's standing and credibility in the west pacific probably took a significant blow.