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[Jeff Head]

It is not unheard or big deal , but it is too crude , rude , blatant and obvious . Lacking style I would say

Crude? Rude? Blatant and obvious? Come on Thunder. Crude does not apply. It's not like they were being flatulent about it. LOL!

Rude? Perhaps. But as long as they do not endanger anyone in international waters, there is nothing that says in such intelligence gathering operations that you take into account the "feelings" of the vessel you are seeking to gather information about.

I will grant that they are being obvious. They did not try to hide it in the least. That's because their operational parameters called for them to be that way in order to gather what they hoped to gather. And they were doing so in international waters.

And they did not imperil anyone in the process.

It is pretty much what all the major maritime powers regarding one another as they seek to gather intel on the latest vessels in open, international waters, Russia included. Now, in closer waters, near to the target's national water limits (the US recognizes 12 miles I believe), the efforts do become clandestine and generally involve submarines.

I am sure as the PLAN ventures more and more and further and further out into the blue water and has opportunity to get closer to the operations of other nations, that they will conduct similar intelligence gathering operations and exercises themselves.

I hate to be nitpicky Jeff, but I have to disagree with you somewhat.

The Liaoning's forward bridge picture that you show has no instrumentation or any control panels. It looks like an empty multirole work/observation space, so it's not exactly equal to the Vikram picture, which clearly shows a lot of instrumentation and gauges.

Now that alone doesn't make the bridge look tacky (even if it does make it look somewhat cold war vintage), however add on the awkwardly bolted on PC monitors at what is clearly meant to be a sort of basic workstation (navigation?) and it simply looks like the finish to the bridge is lacking.

On Liaoning or Nimitz class bridge OTOH, all the workstations look typically integrated and clean cut like what you'd expect on a recent build ship.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong once we get more revealing pictures of Vikram's bridge though, and it may just be the angle is less than flattering.

I do not think the Virkam's bridge is lacking in functionality or capability

Clearly, I will grant, that there is more utilitarian and what may be "vintage" instrumentation under the front glass on the Virkram pic than what we can see on the Liaoning. It may very well be that the most forward area on the Liaoning's bridge has been turned more into observation only area. We cannot be sure unless we saw what was under the counter there.

I will be happy to wait and see as well if there are more "modern" consoles further back on the Virkam's bridge.

As I stated earlier, in the end, the most important thing is not how new or modern that space looks...it is how well the crew can effectively fight and drive the ship.

It does not require all of the newest high-tech, moden monitors and glass to do that from the bridge. In fact, if they are functional, then that more utilitarian, industrial grade equipment may be more able of handling punishment, while still giving th necessary functionality.

Time will tell.

 

[thunderchief]

Crude? Rude? Blatant and obvious? Come on Thunder. Crude does not apply. It's not like they were being flatulent about it. LOL!

Rude? Perhaps. But as long as they do not endanger anyone in international waters, there is nothing that says in such intelligence gathering operations that you take into account the "feelings" of the vessel you are seeking to gather information about.

Let's put it like this : for some reason NATO wants to collect acoustic signature of India's new carrier and to gather some ELINT . OK , but on the other hand , NATO doesn't want to make an opponent out of India . In fact , NATO countries hope to sell military hardware to India , and even to form some kind of alliance against China .

Well , in that case you don't go buzzing over India's pride&joy flagship and drop sonar buoys right in front of ship's path so blatantly obvious . Indians are already very suspicious about US & NATO intentions in Pakistan and Afghanistan . Incidents like this assure them NATO views them as potential enemy and that would have political and economical consequences .

 

[Equation]

Thunderchief has got a point there Jeff. I mean why do it in the first place if India is not even close to be of a threat to NATO? These Chess games are getting dangerous to be sending the wrong messages and signals.

 

[Jeff Head]

Thunderchief has got a point there Jeff. I mean why do it in the first place if India is not even close to be of a threat to NATO? These Chess games are getting dangerous to be sending the wrong messages and signals. .

See my answer to Thunderchief below.

Let's put it like this : for some reason NATO wants to collect acoustic signature of India's new carrier and to gather some ELINT . OK , but on the other hand , NATO doesn't want to make an opponent out of India.

Agreed, and a good point. See my explanation below.

In that case you don't go buzzing over India's pride&joy flagship and drop sonar buoys right in front of ship's path so blatantly obvious. Incidents like this assure them NATO views them as potential enemy and that would have political and economical consequences .

Well, I do not think so.

Officially and legally, during those initial builder's trials last year, the vessel was a Russian vessel. Until the Indian Ensign went up on it this last weekend, it was still a Russian vessel. They had to take down the Russian Ensign to do it.

So, a year ago, the Norwegians did some intel gathering on the vessel. At that time it was a Russian ship, and there were still issues with the ship (as there had been from the beginning) which could have caused Russia to end up with the ship in any case.

In fact, some western analysist thought that Russia might find a way to keep the ship anyway so they would end up with their second carrier. But of course, that did not happen.

So the Norwegians gathered some intel on it just in case.

I expect no ill will will come of it. Let's see if next year this vessle participates or not in the annual exercises held with the US and UK, principle NATO allies. I be, if she is in service, she will be there.

 

[Jeff Head]

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Boeing delivered the second P-8I aircraft to India today, doubling that country’s long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare capabilities.

Boeing is building eight P-8I aircraft for India and delivered the first in-country in May. Based on the company’s Next-Generation 737 commercial airplane, the P-8I is the Indian Navy variant of the P-8A Poseidon that Boeing has developed for the U.S. Navy.

"With two aircraft at Naval Station Rajali now, the Indian Navy will get a good feel for the P-8I's interoperability with other aircraft," said Leland Wight, Boeing P-8I program manager. "Acceptance trials on the first aircraft are progressing well and its availability for testing has been excellent, in large part due to Boeing’s worldwide 737 support capabilities."

While the aircraft delivered today will begin flight trials in the coming months, the first P-8I recently completed testing its weapons capabilities, including successfully firing a Boeing Harpoon missile at a target and dropping a torpedo.

In order to efficiently design and build the P-8I and the P-8A, the Boeing-led team is using a first-in-industry, in-line production process that draws on the company’s Next-Generation 737 production system.

The P-8I features open system architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies, and a worldwide base of suppliers, parts and support equipment. P-8I aircraft are built by a Boeing-led industry team that includes CFM International, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Spirit AeroSystems, BAE Systems and GE Aviation.

 

[FORBIN]

For Rajalim/Arkonam Esc 312 use also 8 Tu-142 13° 4'12.35"N 79°41'30.67"E
The 5 IL-38 are based on the western coast to Ansa/Dabolim.

Tu-142 will receive Brahmos, air variant.

 

[aksha]

[video=youtube;DOKz-sWyo7c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DOKz-sWyo7c[/video]

 

[asif iqbal]

Indian navy is on a high!

They are trying very hard to match Chinese naval production although they don't come near they will have a very nice fleet once the production is completed

 

[Jeff Head]

Vikram does look somewhat cold war vintage, however add on the awkwardly bolted on PC monitors at what is clearly meant to be a sort of basic workstation (navigation?) .

On Liaoning and Nimitz class bridge OTOH, all the workstations look integrated and clean cut like what you'd expect on a recent build ship.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong once we get more revealing pictures of Vikram's bridge though, and it may just be the angle is less than flattering.

Okay, Bltizo, Plawolf, thunderchief and others. I concede.

After watching a video of the Vikramaditya bridge area where the areas further aft of the front glass were shown, and seeing these stations where the ship will be driven (and seeing the clear differences between them and the Liaoning and US Carriers (that I thought India might get the Russian builders to update):

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...and then after finding this pic, posted months ago by Popeye directly showing on the Liaoning bridge the area under the counter by the windows (and seeing no analog devices or vintage equipment at all):

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I concede that the operational areas on the bridge of the Vikramaditya have not received what one would call an "up-to-date and modern" outfitting viza-vie new, integrated and digital equipment. It seems to be all analog, vintage equipment...though I know the wiring was all redone there.

However, I will still maintain that this does not necessarily mean that the Virkamaditya cannot, or will not be able to be very effectively operated. I believe the equipment they have will allow them to effectively run and fight the ship from the bridge. But it is clearly not new, integrated equipment in the least.

It would be interesting to see how their CIC areas look.

 

[adeptitus]

There are numerous photos of Minsk from Minsk world park on the web. You can compare the bridge of the Minsk to the Indian carrier and see what the Russians did to update it.

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I do not believe the Indians will make major refits to the bridge any time soon. They just got the ship and I doubt they would rip up the bridge. But if anyone thinks the Russians sold them the equivalent of a "new" ship with 40 year service life, I think they need their eyes examined.