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MwRYum

Major
Russia can always build another one.



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They should now, consider that they've rebuilt an entire production facility thanks to Indian funds. But that only address the "production" part, whether their various design bureaus can deliver the critical components to be put together by this facility is quite another matter.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Am I the only one who thinks the bridge looks really out of place? Seriously, that does not look like the bridge of a principle warship commissioned at the tail end of 2013.

With all the time and money the Indians spend on her, you would think the Russians could have installed a modern looking bridge. I just hope the CIC is up to far higher standards.
 

Franklin

Captain
Am I the only one who thinks the bridge looks really out of place? Seriously, that does not look like the bridge of a principle warship commissioned at the tail end of 2013.

With all the time and money the Indians spend on her, you would think the Russians could have installed a modern looking bridge. I just hope the CIC is up to far higher standards.

I have commented before that the interior of the Vikramaditya looks like a 1970's era Soviet ship with a few computer screens thrown into it. But i suppose it's enough to do the job. But i am surprised that the ship doesn't look more up to date. I wonder if the Russians are unable or unwilling to provide the Indians with better. Below is an article that talk's more about the technologies onboard the Vikramaditya.

Navy’s dream carrier packs a punch

PICTURE a scenario: It is the dead of the night over the Indian Ocean. A MiG 29-K fighter of the Indian Navy has just completed a mission and heads back to the sea-borne aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya some 400 km away. If the pilot communicates with the warship over the radio, he could reveal his and the ship’s position to enemy radio interceptors, resulting in immediate retaliation. Alternatively, he uses the onboard computer and ‘locks on’ to the radar complex onboard the Vikramaditya.

The radar complex has a system called the ‘Resistor-E’ which guides the fighter jet virtually in autopilot mode and makes it reach just 30 metres away from the warship, thence the pilot takes over for a final landing — all the while maintaining what naval aviators call a ‘zip-lip’ procedure or total radio silence. It will be the first-ever such facility onboard an Indian naval warship, propelling it into the very exclusive club of nations like the US, France and Russia to have similar capacities. In naval parlance, the ‘Resistor-E’ is a microwave landing system and precision approach radar and beacon. In a lay term, it is like an instrument-aided landing system (ILS) installed at airports, which allow operations in all-weather conditions. The system of the warship is even more sophisticated as there is no margin of error on a moving ship. This is just one of the several examples of what the aircraft carrier will add in terms of capacities and the latest technologies to the Navy’s war-fighting abilities.

Loaded with an array of sensors, radars, communication aids and on-deck fighter planes equipped with state-of-the-art missiles, the Vikramaditya is like a swift-sailing behemoth, capable of detecting threats within 500 km of air space. Once airborne, the fighter jets will widen the arc of dominance with an ability to hit at targets in air, on land and on the sea surface while helicopters specialising in anti-submarine warfare will pick out under-sea threats.

The heart of the operational network that infuses life into the warship’s combat systems is its advanced combat management system called ‘LESORUB-E’. It gathers data from the ship’s sensors, radars and data links (including imagery available from the fighter jets, helicopters, UAV’s and the naval satellite launched in August this year) to provide the commanders a comprehensive tactical picture and then take a decision. “It generates continuous air, surface and under-sea scenario and evaluates threat for warfare functions,” the Navy said, explaining how it would change the dynamics.

A senior naval officer in New Delhi explained: “These abilities are so far unparalleled in the Indian Navy. It will enhance our foothold in the immediate maritime neighbourhood and in the international and foreign waters.”


Enabling the 44,500-tonne warship in its swiftness, are eight boilers built by Russian supplier Baltizky Zavod, which produce steam at high pressure, almost 1.5 times more than any existing Indian naval ship. A very high level of automation requires minimal human intervention. The boilers power four enormous propellers, each greater in diameter than twice the height of an average male and generate 2,00,000 shaft horse power. The warship has an arrangement system to enable it to carry out operations unscathed even in a nuclear fallout zone.

Lethal MiG 29-K

One of the biggest additions will be MiG-29Ks that have ‘four times’ greater capacity than the existing naval fighters — the British-origin Sea Harriers. The planes can fly for 1,300 km and double the distance after mid-air refuelling using the IAF’s IL-78. As per a fact-sheet by Russia, work to develop the sea version of the widely acclaimed MiG-29 (used by air forces, including IAF) started in 2004. The ‘K’ in MiG-29K stands for ‘Korabelny’, meaning ‘ship borne’ in Russian. The planes have already been delivered and are stationed at the naval airbase in Goa.

The aircraft are powered by the new RD-33MK engines that have augmented thrust and the fuel capacity has been increased by over 50 per cent over the traditional MiG-29 aircraft. It will carry the Zhuk-ME radar which provides a longer detection range of air targets. It can carry guided air-to-air missiles, including medium-range missiles, with active radar homing warheads and R-73E short-range attack missiles for close manoeuvring air combat. It can deploy Kh-31A and Kh-35A missiles with active radar homing heads.

Warship to carrier

Commissioned into the Soviet navy in 1987 as ‘Baku’, it was a warship carrying helicopters and vertical takeoff and landing fighters Yak 36 and 38. These were Soviet version of the Sea Harriers which India was already using in that era. It was a ship carrying long-range attack missiles, artillery guns and submarine warfare capability, but did not have a traditional flight deck. After the Soviet Union collapse, it was renamed ‘Admiral Gorshkov’ and was put to hibernation after its last sailing in 1995.

When it was offered to India in 1995, New Delhi was looking for a conventional aircraft carrier allowing powerful twin-engine fighters to operate. The refit involved degutting of wiring, equipment removal, refit and re-equipping the ship with new ‘ski jump’ that allowed fighter jets to take off and also have a set of three arrester wires which stall the plane when it lands.

Since fighter jets remain housed inside the belly of the ship, it needed installation of two lifts. Some 2,300 km of new electrical cabling was put and 2,500 tonnes of new steel plates were used to strengthen the outer hull. Fitment of reverse osmosis plants and new AC and refrigeration plants was also done. Sensors and equipment like long-range air surveillance radars and electronic warfare suite capable of detection and localisation of electronic emissions has transformed the ship into a modern platform. This was needed to operate aircraft, including MiG29K, Sea Harriers and Kamov 31, and Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters.

The biggest challenge was the creation of a flight deck. It involved increasing the breadth at the flight deck; strengthening the area of arrested wires and runway; elongation of rear-end; and a new ‘ski jump’ at an elevation of 14 degrees.

Captain PVS Satish, Navy spokesperson, says: “The floating airfield has an overall length of about 284 metres and a maximum beam of about 60 metres — as much as three football fields put together. Standing about 20 storeys tall (from the keel to the highest point), the ship has 22 decks towering a height of 60 metres.”

A long journey

At its meeting on October 26, 1949, the Defence Minister’s Committee on Navy cleared the concept of India having two light carriers, each carrying a fighter squadron of 16 aircraft. The standing committee of Parliament cleared it on November 13, 1950, after Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Governor-General of India Lord Mountbatten pushed for it.

INS Vikrant, India’s first aircraft carrier (UK acquired), was commissioned in 1961. It was followed by INS Viraat in May 1987. This changed the game, with Sea Harriers then being top-of-the-line jets. India operated two carriers from 1987 till January 1997, when INS Vikrant was retired. It will be almost after 16 years that New Delhi will have two carriers.

Vital statistics

Displacement: 44,500 tonnes
Length: 284 metres
Width: 60 metres
Speed: Over 30 knots (55 kmph)
Crew: 1,600
Equipment, crew compartments 2,500
Month’s rations: 1 lakh eggs, 20,000 litres milk and 16 tonnes of rice
Two reverse osmosis plants to convert 400 tonnes of seawater into fresh water daily
Short takeoff but assisted recovering (STOBAR) carrier
All-weather day-and-night flying supported with latest sensors; microwave landing system
Fighters MiG 29K can fly in single fuelling for 1,300 km
Will carry Zhuk-ME radar with longer detection range of air targets. Guided air-to-air missiles include medium-range missiles with active radar homing warheads and short-range attack missiles. Air-to-ship missiles for maritime targets destruction; separate missile for ground targets
Helicopters: Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Seaking, ALH, Chetak.

Long sail

Dec 26, 1978: Keel laid at Chernomorsky Ship Building Enterprise, Nikolayev.

Dec 20, 1987: Commissioned into the Soviet fleet as a heavy cruiser carrying helicopters and capability of allowing vertical takeoff and landing Yak-38 fighters.

Nov 7, 1990: Ship renamed after Admiral Gorshkov.

1995: Offered to Indian Navy.

1996: De-commissioned from Russian navy.

Oct 4, 2000: India signs pact; had to pay for fighter jets and refitting. Cost around Rs 14,000 crore), 35 per cent of what it’s costing UK to produce HMS Queen Elizabeth.

2008: Delivery delayed.

2012: Glitch causes delay.

Nov 16, 2013: Handed over to India at Russia.

Jan 2014: Arrival in India.

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The commander of INAS-339, one of the Indian Navy's Ka-31 AEW squadrons gives a complete walk-around and explanation of the aircraft. Interesting stuff.


[video=youtube;i-cxkeBl-RE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cxkeBl-RE[/video]
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
I have commented before that the interior of the Vikramaditya looks like a 1970's era Soviet ship with a few computer screens thrown into it. But i suppose it's enough to do the job. But i am surprised that the ship doesn't look more up to date. I wonder if the Russians are unable or unwilling to provide the Indians with better. Below is an article that talk's more about the technologies onboard the Vikramaditya.

Russians never paid much attention to internal decoration ;) . Although , bridge is a bridge . Here how it looks like on board destroyer USS Donald Cook :

US_Navy_051111-N-0000L-001_Journalist_3rd_Class_Shauntae_Hinkle_performs_helmsman_duties_on_the_bridge_while_underway_aboard_the_guided-missile_destroyer_USS_Donald_Cook_%28DDG_75%29.jpg
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Am I the only one who thinks the bridge looks really out of place? Seriously, that does not look like the bridge of a principle warship commissioned at the tail end of 2013.
.

1396811_10201415999775772_342545195_o.jpg


I do not find it that bad. The internal structure may be a little dated, but the bridge itself and its layout looks fine to me...it has to be utilitarian, and what matters is whether they can efficiently run and fight the ship.

Now the CICs of most of these vessels will have a different look and aire about them...nestled away in the bowels of the Island or the ship itself and using much more digital imagery and communications than what you find on the bridge.

I do think the false ceiling (and the PLAN, the French, and US all have them as well...and bet the UKs QE will too) is a danger because of the need to access them in case of fire aboard...it would all be ripped out anyway. Popeye discussed this on the carrier II thread.

Other than that, (and its color) it does not look bad to me. The equipment has to be of industrial quality and very utilitarian and built to heave shock and use standards. Here's the bridge on the USS Ronald Reagan nuclear carrier:


000cf1bdd03f0fb2bb2a1c.jpg


Now, sitting behind those stations up by the glass, are other command stations where the ship is actually driven (which we do not see in the Indian or the Reagan picture) as shown below on the Charles de Gaulle for France:


CDG_bridge.jpg


By comparison here is the Liaoning:


Peek%2Bat%2BLife%2Bat%2BChinese%2BAircraft%2BCarrier%2BLiaoning%2B8.jpg


In the end the measure is if they can efficiently run and fight the ship without a lot of down time and maintenance. I believe they will be able to do that.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Here are some more pictures from yesterday's (November 16, 2013) INS Vikramaditya, R33, aircraft carrier induction ceremony (these pictures available online
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:


B_Id_440050_antony-vikramaditya.jpg

Indian Defense minister and Naval Chief of Staff at hand-over/induction ceremony

Vikramaditya_1655072f.jpg

Indian Naval honor guard at the Vikramaditya induction

B_Id_440043_ins-vikramaditya.jpg

The raising of the Indian Naval ensign on the INS Vikramaditya, R33

B_Id_440040_aircraft-vikramaditya.jpg

Mig-29K strike aircraft on display in the hanger

B_Id_440038_vikramaditya-inducted-1.jpg

The Vikramaditya Bridge/Island on the day of induction

B_Id_440051_ins-vikramaditya-1.jpg

Vikramaditya Dockside
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I do not find it that bad. The internal structure may be a little dated, but the bridge itself and its layout looks fine to me...it has to be utilitarian, and what matters is whether they can efficiently run and fight the ship.

Now the CICs of most of these vessels will have a different look and aire about them...nestled away in the bowels of the Island or the ship itself and using much more digital imagery and communications than what you find on the bridge.

I do think the false ceiling (and the PLAN, the French, and US all have them as well...and bet the UKs QE will too) is a danger because of the need to access them in case of fire aboard...it would all be ripped out anyway. Popeye discussed this on the carrier II thread.

Other than that, (and its color) it does not look bad to me. The equipment has to be of industrial quality and very utilitarian and built to heave shock and use standards. Here's the bridge on the USS Ronald Reagan nuclear carrier:

In the end the measure is if they can efficiently run and fight the ship without a lot of down time and maintenance. I believe they will be able to do that.

Well I'm sure you will agree that there is a difference between sturdy and dated.

The only thing remotely modern looking on the bridge of the Vikra are the two PC monitors, which do not look either military grade or particularly robustly mounted.

The integrated stuff are all analog gauges with some consuls and panels that looks like they might be running on vacuum tubes. Maybe they were deliberately going for a vintage chic look, but I stand by my point that the bridge looks very dated in terms of the actual equipment, controls and displays, and I think both the Indians and Russians could have done a lot better.

Anyways, it was a minor point and I think I have made it well enough and each person is free to make up their own minds. I do not want to go on and on about it to rain on the Indian navy's parade.

Congrats to them, its a big day and a big step for them.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Not to beat a dead horse, but second plawolf's statement regarding the bridge

This is a photo of a Nimitz bridge (among many pics one can find if they choose to google it)

800px-thumbnail.jpg



for posterity's sake, here's also one of the few images we have of the liaoning's bridge that suggests the kind of configuration and level of technology it yields
4pjx.jpg



The one photo of Vikram looks like a bad modernization attempt at something built in the late 70s. Other photos might (and hopefully will) show a more modern bridge.


Anyway, have the IN announced in black print as to how many Mig-29Ks they're intending to operate? The numbers we've heard over the years have ranged from 16 to 30(!)
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
h4zd.jpg


5bql.jpg



From Russian forums.

Not sure how recent those are. The deck parking would be different because of the mods, but I think the hanger space remains unchanged.
 
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