Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Radar

[Mysterre]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Oh yes it would. Any act put upon Chinese civilians say a shoot out (accident or not) by Japanese law enforcement will result in condemnation by international world body. Remember the Israeli forces that tried to stop a Turkish relief boat from entering the port in Gaza strip that resulted in 9 civilian deaths? Israel lost a lot of political credibility for that action. Your still stuck in your delusional state to think that the entire Pacific world is some how an automatic alliance against China.

This straw man is rather amusing, but who says there would be a shootout? Japan certainly has enough experience with rioting to quell a Chinese "civilian" incursion without killing anyone. And please go ahead and quote me where I said there is any kind of "automatic alliance" in the Pacific against China. Go ahead, make my day.

No body is going to risk wanting to be a part of history as the first victim of the DF-21D for an uninhabited piece of island.

Speaking of delusion, I think this one definitely takes the cake. Are you actually being serious here or have you not had your coffee yet this morning?

 

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Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

If the Chinese wants to land civilians on DYT, they need to do so with sufficient backup for success. Chinese officials getting evicted by the Japanese would be extremely humiliating for the CCP, which is why no attempts have been made until now.

However, that does not mean such a thing isn't feasible. It's just that it needs to be done with a lot of preparation. That's why it's easier and more realistic to start with offshore oil platforms first.

Yep, and add a basketball court to boot, just like the South Koreans did on their island (Dokdo) dispute with Japan.

 

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Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

This straw man is rather amusing, but who says there would be a shootout? Japan certainly has enough experience with rioting to quell a Chinese "civilian" incursion without killing anyone. And please go ahead and quote me where I said there is any kind of "automatic alliance" in the Pacific against China. Go ahead, make my day.


Speaking of delusion, I think this one definitely takes the cake. Are you actually being serious here or have you not had your coffee yet this morning?

You don't have to say it but you do think about it. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

 

[Schumacher]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Japan would send enough forces, civilian or military, to effectively evict any intruders. It wouldn't be seen as the bully no matter what sized forces it brings to the islands, and therefore Japan has far more latitude and options than China has. Anybody other than the random fisherman or hardcore flag-planting nationalist would be seen as a dramatic escalation. Japan could plant an army there in response to Chinese incursions and nobody except China would complain, and if China were stupid enough to try and land some law enforcement types on there, this would be the perfect excuse for Japan to build a permanent military base on the islands.

How many Chinese government employees have tried to land on the islands, EVER?

If Japan thought it could pull off building a military base on the island, it would have done it by now.
If they don't have any excuse, they would have made one easily.
Now is as good a time as any with Chinese vessel going there at will.

 

[solarz]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Mysterre, I think you vastly overestimate the amount of influence Japan has, and underestimate the influence of China. The USA is not the world. Please consider the following 3 nations: Russia, South Korea, North Korea. Think about whose side they'd choose in the event of a China-Japan conflict.

 

[PanAsian]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Mysterre, I think you vastly overestimate the amount of influence Japan has, and underestimate the influence of China. The USA is not the world. Please consider the following 3 nations: Russia, South Korea, North Korea. Think about whose side they'd choose in the event of a China-Japan conflict.

Not to mention Taiwan! The mere fact that both ROC/Taiwan and PRC/China are on the same side of this issue says a lot. I bet even the Philippines would not side with Japan on this issue despite their co-operation in other spheres and the Philippines' own territorial dispute with China.

 

[Mysterre]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

You don't have to say it but you do think about it. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

Prove you wrong about what, exactly? Your strange notion that I think there is an "automatic alliance" against China? So you somehow weirdly think that whatever China does there would no alliance against China because China has some DF-21D's at the ready to punish the little people of Asia if they don't obey its dictates? Seriously?

If Japan thought it could pull off building a military base on the island, it would have done it by now.
If they don't have any excuse, they would have made one easily.
Now is as good a time as any with Chinese vessel going there at will.

Japan could have easily pulled it off in 1972. Far less easy now, and getting less easy every year. If Japan really wanted to put a base on the island, why didn't it do so then, hmmm?

Mysterre, I think you vastly overestimate the amount of influence Japan has, and underestimate the influence of China. The USA is not the world. Please consider the following 3 nations: Russia, South Korea, North Korea. Think about whose side they'd choose in the event of a China-Japan conflict.

This all depends on what either side does. If Japan unilaterally puts a base on the island during this dispute without China trying to idiotically land "civilians" or troops there, I can easily see world opinion shifting away from Japan. If China sends a naval task force over to DYT and forcibly lands people there and tries to back them up with guns and artillery, I can easily see world opinion shifting away from China. This would also have the effect of confirming the region's worst fears about what China can and is willing to do to advance its territorial claims. Even worse would be equation's suggestion of sending some DF-21D's over to countries that disagree with China's actions in this dispute. You can virtually guarantee an "alliance" of the Pacific against China in that case.

 

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Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Prove you wrong about what, exactly? Your strange notion that I think there is an "automatic alliance" against China? So you somehow weirdly think that whatever China does there would no alliance against China because China has some DF-21D's at the ready to punish the little people of Asia if they don't obey its dictates? Seriously?

Yes China can protect and defend their sovereignty all by themselves, unlike Japan who thinks she can do whatever she wants because the US will back them up. Think again, America is not a tool. Don't have to take my words for it, just go ask any JSDF generals and admirals if the price is worth losing lives and replacing lost ships and planes that are to replace due to a struggling economy will be worth it.

 

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Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

This all depends on what either side does. If Japan unilaterally puts a base on the island during this dispute without China trying to idiotically land "civilians" or troops there, I can easily see world opinion shifting away from Japan. If China sends a naval task force over to DYT and forcibly lands people there and tries to back them up with guns and artillery, I can easily see world opinion shifting away from China. This would also have the effect of confirming the region's worst fears about what China can and is willing to do to advance its territorial claims. Even worse would be equation's suggestion of sending some DF-21D's over to countries that disagree with China's actions in this dispute. You can virtually guarantee an "alliance" of the Pacific against China in that case.

Better answer would be is to just get off of Chinese territory and then there wouldn't be any DF-21D problem right? Every country such as China has the right to protect themselves against any invading enemy.

 

[Equation]

Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Japan could have easily pulled it off in 1972. Far less easy now, and getting less easy every year. If Japan really wanted to put a base on the island, why didn't it do so then, hmmm?

Comparing past capability doesn't mean the same as today scenarios. Japan didn't want to put a base there because they were confidence and arrogant enough to think China or any other of their neighbors will NOT ever have a growing strong Navy and Air Force to challenge them. Fast forward to today, with the PLAN and PLAAF improving and growing stronger by the day to reclaim what's rightfully there's in the first place. All of the sudden those JSDF fan boys are starting to wet their pants and whine about it.