PLAN Type 054A checked for Z-20 fit

[Jeff Head]

On the PLAN Aircraft Carrier thread we had a discussion about helos for the Carrier and other PLAN vessels (Frigates and Destroyers). The question was raised whether a PLAN Type 054A could carry a SH-60 helo. I was asked if I would use my 1/350 scale models to check it out.

It just so happens in my own HP Shipyard annex in Idaho, I am building two Type 054A FFGs in 1/350 scale now as escorts to my PLAN CV-16 Liaoning and to accompany the DDG-171, Haikou I have already built. (

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.) So I took a 1/350 scale SH-60 and played with it:

Here's the results. 1st, will it fit on the flight deck with its rotors operating:

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Next, would the SH-60 fit into the hanger? As you can see, with the rear aileron in the horizontal position, it is a no go. But once folded, watch what happens.

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Finally, would it fit all the way into the hangar, or be too long. Here's the answer to that...and it is a yes too.

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So, yes, physically a SH-60 will fit onto and into a Type 054A Frigate. If the hangar on the Type 052C is large enough, it would fit there too. Clearly, it could fit and operate off the carrier.

Now, the question is, will some of those twenty-four S-70 helos (the export version of the UH-60 Blackhawk, which is the Army version of the SH-60 Seahawk) that China purchased be refitted for naval work...or, has the PLAN been working on building their own helo from those exampes?

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

That Jeff is a great piece of work!

Does it also fit horizontally because you have it at an angle there sitting diagonally and in real life we also have safely net/fence around the deck?

I have another question, do you have a model of the Z8? If so do you also have a model of the Type 071, can you load 4 helos on the deck and the hanger?

Your HP shipyard looks almost as busy as the real thing

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

That Jeff is a great piece of work!

Does it also fit horizontally because you have it at an angle there sitting diagonally and in real life we also have safely net/fence around the deck?

I have another question, do you have a model of the Z8? If so do you also have a model of the Type 071, can you load 4 helos on the deck and the hanger?

Your HP shipyard looks almost as busy as the real thing

The SH-60 will fit on the landing deck of the Type 054A. It is made for US vessels to actually have the tail rotor hanging out over the stern if necessary and the tail landing gear was moved 13ft forward on the SH-60 for precisely that reason. You can see that shown in this photo accurately, seeing the tail landing wheel moved forward, on the bottom of the aircraft under the engine exhaust there:

So, yes, it will fit diagonally or straight on.

There is not 1/350 scale model of the 071 availabe yet...I am anxiously awaiting one. When it comes out I will buy a couple immediately so I can create a PLAN ARG. I got one of the 1st 1/350 scale San Antonio Class, but have not gotten to building it yet...too much other work and only so many berths at my "shipyard."

The San Antonio is built to place four MV-22s on deck at one time, but that is spotting them only. They can only operate two with their rotors operating at once. Something similar will probably hold for the Z-8 on the 071. Minimum distances are required for seperation...even if they could "physically" fit, they may end up too close to operate safely at the same time.

 

[MwRYum]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

No offense Jeff, but personally I'd not take this as accurate assessment because these commercial models are not metric-accurate to begin with, besides such a tight fit, if in reality is feasible, mostly likely means there's very little room on the deck level for maintenance work to be carry out inside the hanger in efficient manner.

It might be possible to gauge the width of the hanger door, but as to the interior dimensions there's little information available - the only info available would be the open house event held early this year, with the display of personnel gears held inside a 054A helicopter hanger, but those photos provide very little info in determining the interior volume in relation to helicopter up to what class and size can fit in for not just simple storage but to conduct maintenance work efficiently.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

No offense Jeff, but personally I'd not take this as accurate assessment because these commercial models are not metric-accurate to begin with, besides such a tight fit, if in reality is feasible, mostly likely means there's very little room on the deck level for maintenance work to be carry out inside the hanger in efficient manner.

It might be possible to gauge the width of the hanger door, but as to the interior dimensions there's little information available - the only info available would be the open house event held early this year, with the display of personnel gears held inside a 054A helicopter hanger, but those photos provide very little info in determining the interior volume in relation to helicopter up to what class and size can fit in for not just simple storage but to conduct maintenance work efficiently.

No offense taken.

This was an exercise to see if it could fit...and it can.

Actually there are now many pictures of the inside and outside of the Type 054A hangar. The model is very accurate.

Inside the hangar there is room on each side for an individual walk around on the floor, and on the second level catwalk that encircles three sides of the hangar bay. I expect if the PLAN wanted to, and created a Z-20 helo made from their S-70 helos, that they could fit it in and maintain it.

Every helo hangar in the US Navy I have ever seen is a "tight" fit...but they still get around it and under it and on top of it and keep them well maintained.

Whatever the case. which ever helo the PLAN develops will certainly take all of this into consideration and allow for the full oepration and maintenance of their helos.

 

[Mysterre]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

Your SH-60 model doesn't look like it could fold its tail rotor though, and photos suggest the Ka-28 is not a real loose fit inside the hangar. I think the width has not really been an issue, but the length is what is in contention.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

Your SH-60 model doesn't look like it could fold its tail rotor though, and photos suggest the Ka-28 is not a real loose fit inside the hangar. I think the width has not really been an issue, but the length is what is in contention.

Oh, I have cut them to fold in the past. Didn't need to here.

It fit that deep into the hangar without a fold, so I know, when folded and gaining those additional 20+ ft, that she will easily fit in terms of length.

Lenth Unfolded: 19.75m (64 ft 8 in)
Length Folded: 12.47m (40ft 11in)

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

Well, now, with the first flight of the new Chinese Z-20, this exercise may now become something more than academic:

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On Dec. 23, at 14.11 Local Time, the Chinese medium lift utility helicopter dubbed Z-20 made its first flight.

As the image (published on a Chinese Internet website and then made available by Alert5) shows, the chopper is clearly based on the U.S. Black Hawk. China operates 24 of the Sirkosky variety procured in 1983 as S-70C-2.

Still, the Z-20 features a 5-blade rotor, a larger cabin and a different landing gear and tail.

Z-20 is believed to be a 10-ton chopper that will be used to replace Mi-17 and Mi-171 helos within People’s Liberation Army.

The question now becomes, if they successfully develop and then produce this helicopter, will they make a navalized version as the US has in the sea Hawk?

If they do, it will be able to fly off of the Type 054A and the Type 052C/Ds too I believe.

 

[MwRYum]

Re: Type054A & SH-60 Helos

Well, now, with the first flight of the new Chinese Z-20, this exercise may now become something more than academic:

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​

The question now becomes, if they successfully develop and then produce this helicopter, will they make a navalized version as the US has in the sea Hawk?

If they do, it will be able to fly off of the Type 054A and the Type 052C/Ds too I believe.

It'd be logical for them to do so, the Z-9 is way too small for the roles it now undertakes, size wise the Z-15 would be a better fit but no idea if it'd have a militarized version though...in a way, if both are in the same market it'd be very interesting a situation.

The better question is that how many ships in the PLAN it can fit? I still ain't fully convinced it'd be a comfortable fit in the current-gen tier-1 surface combatants, though if they can make the navalised version folded this small it'd help - they ain't stranger to stuff like this, as Z-8 have tails that can be folded, that and Z-9 can fold the rotors as well, alas not at a scale as the Seahawk.

 

[dingyibvs]

Just wondering, can the AC-313 fit as well? If it could, then there really isn't much of a need for the Z-20, is there?